.22 Caliber J-frame

[willie]

That's a valid point, but I had such a terrible experience with the .38 that I'm hesitant to try it again. There's no way that I would practice with it enough to make me confident in it. If there's a good way to mitigate the recoil on the .38 (perhaps thicker grips), I'd consider it again.

Most likely some here can recommend a suitable J frame grip. I'm out of date on the subject but suggest looking at Hogue offerings as one source. Our valued member @Lost River sells 38 Short and 38 Long ammo based on shorter cases from the past. This ammo might be a suitable alternative to the regular .38 Spl round. If you purchase another J frame, consider getting an all steel model and not an air weight aluminum version. The extra heft will slightly reduce felt recoil.

[Half Moon]

I think the increased concealability of boot grips is a poor comfort and shooting tradeoff unless you are actually putting it in a pocket or a boot.

True enough but, for me anyways, if you aren't putting it in a pocket (or maybe ankle carry), it's leaving the natural niche of the small frame revolver. Once you get to belt carry and such there are other options, revolver or semi-auto, that are almost as easy to carry and conceal, while adding capacity, power, control, reloadability, etc. That being said, those are beautiful grips and I do understand:



:-)

[BillSWPA]

Pachmayr Compaq grips are also worth a look. They cover the backstrap with rubber. They are longer than a typical boot grip, but not quite as long as a typical 3 finger grip. They provide a place for the pinky to engage the grip, partially curled under the grip, but still contributing to the overall grip on the gun.


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[Chewbacca10]

Per an earlier post, I think your experience was with .38 +P in a J though. Really the best way to mitigate recoil is to step down in power. .38 Mid-Range wadcutters will cut the recoil substantially while retaining good penetration. Which, out of a snub length barrel, penetration is what you want. Expansion is going to be iffy and where it occurs is likely to cut penetration to unacceptable levels. Generally the higher power levels in a J snub are costing you controllability with no substantial improvement in performance.

Other things that can help are stepping up the weight. Recoil between a 16 Oz Airweight and a 22 Oz Steel J is very different. The problem being that extra weight makes carry less convenient.

You are absolutely right about grips making a difference too. Different grips change the dynamics dramatically. On the plus side revolvers are able to wear a wide array of grips. It's finding the right compromise that's the hard part. The best grips for shooting tend to be the worst for concealing. The best median I've found are the 'old' Taurus boot grips (which fit a J with some minor adaptation). The covered back strap and palm swells on them work really well for my hands. Unfortunately, it looks like Taurus discontinued them around the time the pandemic hit. In any case, .38 is likely to serve you better if needed for self-defense than .22 LR.

@Half Moon

I must thank you for this suggestion to try the .38 again with different ammunition.

I borrowed a friend's 642 over the weekend, and it was not nearly as bad as I recalled it. This time around, I was shooting 158-grain copper-plated handloads (4.2 grains of Bullseye if I recall correctly). I fired over 50 of them without having any of the pain that I experienced previously. Either those previous loads were too hot or my technique has improved. Or perhaps some of both.

At any rate, I am going to buy a .38 for now since I already load for that round and would prefer a centerfire. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[Gater]

Bumping to add the latest chapter from DB:

https://m.facebook.com/100027351922366/km

[Polecat]

I love my latest 43c. Spot on point of aim. No difficulties ejecting. Traded into a 351PD a few weeks ago, amd love it, though it does seem to heavier trigger pull. I am waiting on a prelock 317 kit gun to arrive, and can’t wait to try it.

I wish they would try like a 10 shot cylinder, even if it is bit bigger.

I would try a Taurus UL if I could find one.

Lastly, I think I would stick to .22LR, at least in 2” barrel, from a bunch of gel test vids I watched, seems neck and neck?

You can’t beat the weight to capacity to ease of shooting with these little things. I take mine to the range every time I go, and practice regularly.

[SCCY Marshal]

...Lastly, I think I would stick to .22LR, at least in 2” barrel, from a bunch of gel test vids I watched, seems neck and neck?

In gel, perhaps usually.

If you shoot other things and look at other factors? Maybe not.

22 WMR will push a same-weight bullet faster out of the same tube. Seems to be around 100+fps usually. The magnum also gives you a true copper-jacketed bullet versus very soft plain lead or copper washed soft lead.

In my experience on small game, the extra velocity kills better as stumpy rimfires go. The faster jacketed magnum also tends to go through some stuff that would stop a 22LR. While 22WMR is spendier than 22LR, it has less bottom shelf junk ammo in the ranks.

The muzzle blast also sounds like a real gun going off with more flash and may get people's attention for a possible increase in psychological stops. This is mere theory, undependable even if true, and far from a primary consideration. But I just get "that a rimfire?" from others while at the range with my 22 LR snub. When running a buddy's 22WMR snubs or my own, "what the hell is that thing?!" is a more common reaction.

[willie]

I've owned a couple 4 inch J frame 22's. Both shot better after having the forcing cone slightly modified with a Ron Power reamer. Lightweight and a heavy double action pull convinced me to shoot them single action. My only concern was plinking and field shooting and not defense. Larger grips helped tremendously. My two were ammo sensitive, and I soon learned that standard velocity ammo performed best. One of these revolvers excelled with shorts which were much quieter. Then I shot most snakes and aquatic turtles that I saw. 22 shorts did the job. Today I don't kill snakes unless they are poisonous ones in my yard. I no longer shoot turtles with one exception. In recent years I have been asked to reduce turtle populations in ponds stocked with fish. In return for fishing privileges I soon accomplished this goal using a shotgun. I reduced but did not exterminate turtle populations. Was this necessary? I doubt it.

[Polecat]

In gel, perhaps usually.

If you shoot other things and look at other factors? Maybe not.

22 WMR will push a same-weight bullet faster out of the same tube. Seems to be around 100+fps usually. The magnum also gives you a true copper-jacketed bullet versus very soft plain lead or copper washed soft lead.

In my experience on small game, the extra velocity kills better as stumpy rimfires go. The faster jacketed magnum also tends to go through some stuff that would stop a 22LR. While 22WMR is spendier than 22LR, it has less bottom shelf junk ammo in the ranks.

The muzzle blast also sounds like a real gun going off with more flash and may get people's attention for a possible increase in psychological stops. This is mere theory, undependable even if true, and far from a primary consideration. But I just get "that a rimfire?" from others while at the range with my 22 LR snub. When running a buddy's 22WMR snubs or my own, "what the hell is that thing?!" is a more common reaction.

Those are some good points I haven’t thought about!

[feudist]

In gel, perhaps usually.

If you shoot other things and look at other factors? Maybe not.

22 WMR will push a same-weight bullet faster out of the same tube. Seems to be around 100+fps usually. The magnum also gives you a true copper-jacketed bullet versus very soft plain lead or copper washed soft lead.

In my experience on small game, the extra velocity kills better as stumpy rimfires go. The faster jacketed magnum also tends to go through some stuff that would stop a 22LR. While 22WMR is spendier than 22LR, it has less bottom shelf junk ammo in the ranks.

The muzzle blast also sounds like a real gun going off with more flash and may get people's attention for a possible increase in psychological stops. This is mere theory, undependable even if true, and far from a primary consideration. But I just get "that a rimfire?" from others while at the range with my 22 LR snub. When running a buddy's 22WMR snubs or my own, "what the hell is that thing?!" is a more common reaction.

IIRC, quite a few people have posited that as the reason for the outsized effect of the 125 grain .357, including Fackler. Didn't DB call it a "flashbang on a .38" or something to that effect?
Re: the characterizing of "Timers and switches" in stopping attacks. A wound causing even the most grievous blood loss requires several seconds to take effect, but we routinely see videos of nearly instantaneous effect with handgun bullets that aren't CNS hits.
Back in the Paleolithic, the Army taught me that 40% of men stop fighting when they're hit anywhere by anything, even if it doesn't cause a wound. My platoon sergeant got a Bronze Star in Vietnam for pulling a downed man to safety under fire. The guy had been hit in the canteen and thought the sun heated water was blood. Audie Murphy did the same thing to a guy who had a can of beans in his pocket get hit.
Vasovagal syncope?
Personal opinion, I think it's enough of a potential advantage to warrant returning to non flash suppressed powders in defense rounds, since position concealment is a moot issue in handgun fights, as is any effect on night vision adaptation.
Set his hair on fire.