Thoughts on USPSA divisions

[JCS]

Production is dead as far as I see it. At my locals hardly anyone shoots it. It's gone the way of single stack. Going to 15 round mags would revive it I think.

Carry optics is such a dominant division it could be split in half and still be the top two divisions in the sport. If I were king for a day I'd do a production optics and limited optics. Both minor divisions but one allows for SA guns and magwells and production optics is more like IPSC rules with trigger pull weight rules to prevent 2 lb striker guns.

Limited and Open can stay the same although I think they should seriously reconsider the major PF limit. Imagine if it was something more like +p ammo. 9 major now is outside SAMI specs and it's no wonder there are very few ammo manufacturers that make it. If they bumped it down to +p you could run an off the shelf gun and not have to buy extinct .40 cal ammo or make dangerous 9 major.

[Clusterfrack]

Production is dead as far as I see it. At my locals hardly anyone shoots it. It's gone the way of single stack. Going to 15 round mags would revive it I think.

Carry optics is such a dominant division it could be split in half and still be the top two divisions in the sport. If I were king for a day I'd do a production optics and limited optics. Both minor divisions but one allows for SA guns and magwells and production optics is more like IPSC rules with trigger pull weight rules to prevent 2 lb striker guns.

Limited and Open can stay the same although I think they should seriously reconsider the major PF limit. Imagine if it was something more like +p ammo. 9 major now is outside SAMI specs and it's no wonder there are very few ammo manufacturers that make it. If they bumped it down to +p you could run an off the shelf gun and not have to buy extinct .40 cal ammo or make dangerous 9 major.

That sounds good to me. There are a bunch of shooters (myself included) who have no interest in 2011s or Major, but want to compete on a level playing field.

[cheby]

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion... Strictly from a timmie point of view. I would like to have a timmie division. That used to be Production. Weight limit, no modification, no Shadow 2 types of steel tanks. Don't really care about capacity... More important: increase a minimum power factor to at least 150, ideally to 160 to match real +p ammo. Shooting major PF ammo from a Limited gun is much closer to shooting +P ammo 9mm from a polymer gun. Don't get me wrong - I love Shadow 2, used to have 5 in various configuration. But let's face it - shooting soft 125 PF ammo from 50oz gun is different. Just strictly from a Timmie perspective.

[Clusterfrack]

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion... Strictly from a timmie point of view. I would like to have a timmie division. That used to be Production. Weight limit, no modification, no Shadow 2 types of steel tanks. Don't really care about capacity... More important: increase a minimum power factor to at least 150, ideally to 160 to match real +p ammo. Shooting major PF ammo from a Limited gun is much closer to shooting +P ammo 9mm from a polymer gun. Don't get me wrong - I love Shadow 2, used to have 5 in various configuration. But let's face it - shooting soft 125 PF ammo from 50oz gun is different. Just strictly from a Timmie perspective.

I like it. 147gr HST at 1000-1050fps = 150PF

[YVK]

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion... Strictly from a timmie point of view. I would like to have a timmie division. That used to be Production. Weight limit, no modification, no Shadow 2 types of steel tanks. Don't really care about capacity... More important: increase a minimum power factor to at least 150, ideally to 160 to match real +p ammo. Shooting major PF ammo from a Limited gun is much closer to shooting +P ammo 9mm from a polymer gun. Don't get me wrong - I love Shadow 2, used to have 5 in various configuration. But let's face it - shooting soft 125 PF ammo from 50oz gun is different. Just strictly from a Timmie perspective.

Yo, timmy, next time we shoot a match, it is you and me, mano a mano, you with your M18 and me with ma Glock. 124+P Speer Gold Dot.
I wanted to get @GJM on board with that today but he's all about Open these days.

[cheby]

Yo, timmy, next time we shoot a match, it is you and me, mano a mano, you with your M18 and me with ma Glock. 124+P Speer Gold Dot.
I wanted to get @GJM on board with that today but he's all about Open these days.

Lol. Yes, let’s do it. You - with your HK 357SIG. To clarify my previous post a little. I am personally not a timmie. I just wanted to contribute a little about USPSA on pistol- forum because I care about my brothers here. Merry Christmas everyone.

[Bergeron]

There won’t ever be a rule set that makes everyone happy, and I think we’re going to see continuous changes as opposed to big resets.

I like the idea of small, medium, and large size/weight classes. As mentioned upthread, there will always be high-dollar factory guns, and factory guns tuned-out for their divisions. I’m not such a fan of “stock” style divisions simply because the urge to modify for any shooting sport is always so strong. Any intent around a “no-mods” rule turns into “some mods” rule set that the serious competitors optimize for.

I don’t have any clue what to do about minor/major power factor(s) floors & ceilings, 5-4-2 vs 5-3-1 scoring, optics, comps, action types, or how to keep divisions from being locked down into a “relevant from 2020-2025” time capsule context that risks inhibiting innovation and experimentation.

The common practical pistol is a polymer framed dot-on-slide double stack 9mm. It might be as small as a P365X with a EPS or as big and heavy as a LTT 92 with brass grips, a X300 and a Acro, and I bet the number of G19s with RMRs or Holosun 407s out in the world would be sobering. There are differences in the performance potential of each of those guns, and the questions become- to what extend must the divisions and rules for each account for that performance potential delta? To what extent should classic guns such as revolvers and single stacks be included in competitive equity, and how can the really wacky stuff find a home that encourages innovation?

I like how CO is both where the heat seems to focus and where the new shooter can “off-the-shelf easy button” show up, shoot well, and have competitive equipment.

Selfishly, I wish that the concept of the old “Modified” division or the 2-gun world’s “Stealth” division made another run at USPSA. I really like the idea of a fixed and challenging volume weight envelope where dot size/mounting, mag length, porting/comps, lights/lasers, and base gun size-weight-power-capacity are all being traded against each other. I’m also 100% on board with DA, striker, and SAO trigger pull weight minimums.

[Clusterfrack]

Lol. Yes, let’s do it. You - with your HK 357SIG. To clarify my previous post a little. I am personally not a timmie. I just wanted to contribute a little about USPSA on pistol- forum because I care about my brothers here. Merry Christmas everyone.

You too, buddy. But you’re totally a Timmy, don’t deny it.

[cheby]

You too, buddy. But you’re totally a Timmy, don’t deny it.

Haha. Fact check: mostly true but out of context

[GJM]

Yo, timmy, next time we shoot a match, it is you and me, mano a mano, you with your M18 and me with ma Glock. 124+P Speer Gold Dot.
I wanted to get @GJM on board with that today but he's all about Open these days.

Dude, shoot a match with GOLD DOT -- the only time I would be willing to shoot more than five rounds of Gold Dot to check zero, would be in the mall.