Hand and grip size, am I overthinking things?

[JonInWA]

I just realized (2 nights ago) there were different sized mainspring housings for 1911s and 2011s. I see you have both flat and arched. Makes no difference for you?

Dawson sells an Arched MSH for the 2011 but its sold out. Ordered the Wedge MSH to see how that feels.

Seems like I ran down this path with the Beretta 92X. A smaller dude like myself (medium gloves) would like the Vertec slim grip... nope. I installed the humped grips and that was much better for me.

On my 1911s, it really doesn't seem to make a difference, so as long as there's balance between the MSH and trigger length; my SIG GSR XO has a flat MSH and a longer trigger, where the Colt Series 70 Repro has an arched MSH and short trigger. For me, it seems that the critical factor is finger placement on the trigger, and which combination achieves that best. Other factors can be frame and grip variations.

Best, Jon

[foxj66]

So, short version - I have XL+ hands give or take, and I'm finding that certain firearms/grips leave me at the point where my support hand isn't making contact with the firearm at all...which means recoil control isn't all that great.

An example of this - a Beretta PX4 Compact with the large backstrap and grip tape on it; if I grip it with my strong hand firing grip ready for my support hand to meet it, if I take a dummy 45ACP cartridge, I cannot grip or squeeze it in the space between my index and ring fingers, and the meat of my thumb. I can't even orient them in such a way where that's possible; there's plenty of support hand grip space available on the gun for the support hand to make contact with the grip/frame without needing to move anything on my shooting hand.

However if I try this on a CZ75/P01, I can very easily take control of and pick up a 45acp dummy by squeezing it between my strong hand middle/ring finger and the meat of my thumb, while in a shooting grip, without adjusting anything. Since my support hand isn't made of silicone putty, it basically never touches the grip/frame...it just can't really squeeze in the tiny amount of available grip space on the support hand side of the gun. Not unless I back the rear of my shooting hand off the backstrap a bit to let my support hand wedge in and make contact with the support side, which is what I wind up doing.

On a 1911 with a flat mainspring housing, I can grip the dummy 45 with a slight shooting hand adjustment; with the arched mainspring housing, I can only grip it if I mess up my grip a lot. Same with a Beretta 92 (NON-Vertec); it's only if I deliberately crowd the frame into a grip I wouldn't normally shoot with that I can pinch the 45 dummy round between finger and meat.

Anyway - the reason for this - I bought the aforementioned P01 ages ago; I like the CZ platform, I like that it's a decocker without a thumb safety; I like that it's G19+- sized with 14+1 (or more depending on mag size); I like that it's millable for an optic; and I like that you can mount a light to it. I spent a good bit of money on CGW bits and making some improvements to it like sights; DA pull is around 7.5 pounds and SA is a mushy 3lb (which is fine for me, I'm not shooting this in bullseye). I found though that whenever I took it out for practice, it was pretty difficult to keep total control over it; it would move around a lot under recoil...because the rear of my shooting hand was backed off the backstrap so my support hand could make contact with the grip. I also found that often after a few mags at the range, my support hand kept just slipping off no matter what I did since there was so little real estate for it to lock into on the gun.

Am I overthinking this? Is this something I should just work/train around, or is this something I should actually pay attention to and try to fit things to me, vs fit me to things? I've been trying to whittle down and remove things that I just can't make work for me, but there's this nagging voice in the back of my head saying 'Don't sell this stuff, it's a "you" problem and not a problem with the tool'..

Visual examples (all firearms rendered safe before photographing):

I would say you are correct that the grip is too small for your hands. You have no space for the weak hand to make contact with the gun. You might get there trying some thicker grips like the LOK palmswells and I think they can make them extra wide.

You are going to shoot better if the gun fits you better.

[rayrevolver]

On my 1911s, it really doesn't seem to make a difference, so as long as there's balance between the MSH and trigger length; my SIG GSR XO has a flat MSH and a longer trigger, where the Colt Series 70 Repro has an arched MSH and short trigger. For me, it seems that the critical factor is finger placement on the trigger, and which combination achieves that best. Other factors can be frame and grip variations.

Best, Jon

Thank you.

After years with Glocks there is a lot to learn about 1911s and 2011s. I think I need the hump, like on a G26, to really get on with these things speed wise.

[CraigS]

In addition to trigger reach there can also be a left/right component. My wife carries a G19-4. We don't like it much but both can shoot it fine. I got a PX4compact thinking it might replace the G19. First range trip she always shot 4-5 inches to the right at 30 ft. I was fine. Next trip I made sure to bring all the different grip panels. None fixed the right. So I assume that, as the impact hits one's hand, the internal structure may react differently in different people. I noticed, when looking at LOK grips website for Beretta 92s, that they offer palm swell versions. And they even display the option of having a palm swell on one side only. This grip stuff can get very interesting.

[JonInWA]

In addition to trigger reach there can also be a left/right component. My wife carries a G19-4. We don't like it much but both can shoot it fine. I got a PX4compact thinking it might replace the G19. First range trip she always shot 4-5 inches to the right at 30 ft. I was fine. Next trip I made sure to bring all the different grip panels. None fixed the right. So I assume that, as the impact hits one's hand, the internal structure may react differently in different people. I noticed, when looking at LOK grips website for Beretta 92s, that they offer palm swell versions. And they even display the option of having a palm swell on one side only. This grip stuff can get very interesting.

Hmmm, HK might be on to something.....

Best, Jon

[rayrevolver]

Of course the arched was out of stock the night I ordered, but in stock today. I ended up ordering a Dawson "Wedge" MSH, according to the internet is in-between the flat and arched.

This thing need to be fitted on both sides, it was too long and interfered with the grip safety. And then the hole for pin was offset and I needed to use a round file to hog it out a little. It was the same story in 2 other grips, so as best I can verify the part was a touch off.

Also, it does not work with Dawsons Tactical magwell. Looks like I could file the magwell but not going to bother in the short term.

I missed my window to shoot today, but in dry fire this seems like an ok solution to bring the muzzle up. I am going to shoot this setup and see how it feels and then decide on the arched or not.

[GlockenSpiel]

I've realized I have big hands with long fingers, and bigger, fatter grips are better. I got side-tracked into thinking maybe I shot some guns better because of single action triggers or they were hammer-fired or a better sight radius or whatever. For example, I shoot the Beretta 92 better than just about anything, but it has that baseball bat barrel sized grip. I don't shoot smaller, more concealable DA/SA handguns nearly as well, and most slimline guns just end up swimming in my hands when firing, even when I think I have the ideal grip figured out.

A proper-sized grip makes everything much easier for both accuracy and recoil control. Though I will say that sometimes a large grip that is ideal for two hands can cause issues with the heel of the grip squirming out from your hand when shooting one-handed, so always confirm you can shoot both ways with a defensive gun.

Going forward I'm going to be experimenting with rubber overgrips for my non concealed carry Glocks, and shifting away from slim 9mms to something like a Glock 26 for concealed carry, just to get a fatter and (for me) more ergonomic grip.

[4RNR]

I've realized I have big hands with long fingers, and bigger, fatter grips are better. I got side-tracked into thinking maybe I shot some guns better because of single action triggers or they were hammer-fired or a better sight radius or whatever. For example, I shoot the Beretta 92 better than just about anything, but it has that baseball bat barrel sized grip. I don't shoot smaller, more concealable DA/SA handguns nearly as well, and most slimline guns just end up swimming in my hands when firing, even when I think I have the ideal grip figured out.

A proper-sized grip makes everything much easier for both accuracy and recoil control. Though I will say that sometimes a large grip that is ideal for two hands can cause issues with the heel of the grip squirming out from your hand when shooting one-handed, so always confirm you can shoot both ways with a defensive gun.

Going forward I'm going to be experimenting with rubber overgrips for my non concealed carry Glocks, and shifting away from slim 9mms to something like a Glock 26 for concealed carry, just to get a fatter and (for me) more ergonomic grip.

I've tried a few of those rubber grip sleeve things. Glock 43, HK USP 45 compact and a few others. My luck.....they never stay put. Always shifting or sliding off

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[mizer67]

I've tried a few of those rubber grip sleeve things. Glock 43, HK USP 45 compact and a few others. My luck.....they never stay put. Always shifting or sliding off

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

I generally hate the rubber overmolded grip thingy's that are out there. However, for my G48 the small grip + large hand combo just wasn't working like I would like, so I put on a Houge rubber grip that seems to be working out fine so far. No movement and it fills my hand a lot better so the gun isn't squirming around as much and the trigger reach is a bit better.

I generally put the large backstrap on my Glocks and still think I could use one slightly larger for trigger reach issues for reference.

Not sure if I'll move back to a G19. The G48 still carries better in my almost-always T-shirt and shorts weather locale.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I've tried a few of those rubber grip sleeve things. Glock 43, HK USP 45 compact and a few others. My luck.....they never stay put. Always shifting or sliding off

I generally hate the rubber overmolded grip thingy's that are out there. However, for my G48 the small grip + large hand combo just wasn't working like I would like, so I put on a Houge rubber grip that seems to be working out fine so far. No movement and it fills my hand a lot better so the gun isn't squirming around as much and the trigger reach is a bit better.

I'm going from memory, and I've slept a few times since then, but I recall some LE training class in which I'm almost positive it was this incident that was referred to:

https://www.odmp.org/officer/17454-p...mes-l-davis-jr

We were told that Davis used a slip-on grip sleeve, and one was found on the ground at the scene. It was speculated that the suspect pulled the gun right out of the grip sleeve while it was in Davis' hand. No proof. No witnesses. But food for thought when considering one.