1/2 was difficult for me to realize. Good things happen when I don't fight the recoil and instead just let it happen.Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
1/2 was difficult for me to realize. Good things happen when I don't fight the recoil and instead just let it happen.
Tried this yesterday - 40 degrees and gusty winds, suboptimal. Springfield Prodigy 4.25" from an open top holster - no concealment.
15 yards - best speed 2.21, worst speed 2.55. Group 9", all on paper. Minimal lateral dispersion, plenty of vertical stringing.
7 yards - best speed 1.48, worst speed 1.81. Group 9", two rounds high off paper. Same dispersion as above.
3 yards - best speed 1.13, worst 1.51. Group 3.5", all on paper, generally high.
Observations: this is called a see what you need to see drill - with irons, I'm seeing not a damn thing at all trying to achieve these speeds. All I see is the target box, and the green blob of the FO somewhere near it. FOR ME, these times are so wildly unachievable while maintaining accuracy and vision that I need to really turn the volume down.
Mechanics - it's been a LONG time since I got a sub 1-second D1 done, let alone a D2. Didn't get a single round off at 3 yards before the 1-second stop beep sounded.
Splits are fine, generally sub .2, but I consider the accuracy I'm achieving as unacceptable. I like the theory, but I'm going to tweak this to be more realistic for my current abilities.
Thank you, to you and JCN! THAT is exactly what I need! You guys rock.
I am doing the dryfire routine now. Went ahead and started day before yesterday. I will execute with par time set, working on getting the reps in as close as possible.
I'm beginning the sessions with a few slow, methodical reps, a "warm-up" if you will, to hardwire the motions before going balls to the wall.
Am also working on refining draw mechanics and presentations, as well as trigger press.
I will say that I'm mainly doing the exercises from concealment, AIWB, the way I carry out and about. I don't want to build from an open top rig I'll never carry in, I need these reps to count.
All dry training I've done in the past is either coming from concealment or retention holsters, as those are about the only ways I carry a sidearm. No big deal, but it matters to me.....
I can't remember who said it, Jerry Miculek or Scott Jedlinski, I think....for eliminating the wobble of the dot at full extension, you sort of "put on the brakes" just as the gun reaches that point, a very minute slow-down.
I have to work at it, but it keeps me on track. I'm making it a point to focus on that aspect of presentation while I'm doing this dry excercise.
DON'T PUT ON THE BRAKES! DON'T BAIL!
YOU ARE DOING GREAT! Stick with it. With improvement of the draw speed BY WORKING THE SPEED, you'll get the gun up and out sooner and have more time for vision.
Trust me, please. Stick with it for dryfire in a month and see where it gets you at the end... I guarantee you'll hit levels of performance that you've never gotten before. Don't hit the brakes yet. You're not supposed to be able to do it yet.
It's a drill, not a test. It's a mechanism to improve and develop, not a spot check of what you can do right now. That's why it's different from the design of most drills / tests.
When I see people at the range, they often either practice what they know they can do. Or they test things without working on things. They never improve.
Vertical stringing is just on the cusp of a breakthrough with vision. It means your mechanics are solid.
If you work the muscles by practicing faster up and out of the holster you’ll have a little more time for the vision and working the vision you’ll learn to track by seeing streaks and blobs. You’re not really supposed to see more than that at speed!
So stick with it. This is just the starting point and if you do it 10 min a day 5 d / week, you’ll see improvements you never have had before! But don’t bail yet. It’s just a starting point.
So I'm going to comment on this specifically for people feeling this way. Not to call out psalms.
You want to PUSH your current abilities. It's supposed to feel uncomfortable to push the boundaries.
You have to trust me. You have to trust me. You have to trust me.
If you have self doubt about the process, you might as well give up now and stay at the current comfort level!
Don't do that! It's only one month of practice. Commit to pushing the speed AND vision with a goal of acceptable accuracy.
Also note that alpha/charlie on a USPSA target is 12" across!
This was my wife early after being on the program. She's even faster now.
So one thing to note here is that you're using too much vision at 3 yards and that's why the time overlaps with the 7 yard string.
The other thing to note, is if you use your 3 yard vision at 7 yards... you'd make par time AND still be on paper!
You're actually doing it, but you're probably tensing up trying to get more vision than you need.
At 3 yards, you don't need to see very much at all. It's mental hangup that's slowing you down I'm wagering, given the tight spread at 3 yards.
Make sure you do the dry strings in between live strings as a necessary part of taking back what you need to see to your dry practice.
YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO A BREAKTHROUGH!!! All the pieces are there, you just don't know it!
Baseline live run before starting the dryfire routine. Using my SP01 Tactical with DPP from my USPSA holster. (roughly 3:00 with a blade tech on a boss hanger)
These group sizes are minus the one allowed flyer. I did not write down separate times for draws/splits, so times are all just total times for the pair.
15 yards: group size was 9 1/4 vertical x 8 1/2 horizontal. Times were 1.87, 1.96, 2.04, 1.91 and 1.85.
7 yards: group size was 7 1/4 x 7 3/4. Times were 1.46, 1.47, 1.24, 1.35 and 1.42
3 yards: group size was 8 1/2 x 4 1/2. Times were 1.05, 1.17, .98, .95 and .95.
At 3 yards, I was largely going almost exclusively on index. All of those shots would have been A zone hits. I'd still like to learn to see the dot faster and more consistently at that range/speed. I feel like I am faster finding the dot in dry fire than in live, and sometimes wonder if the timer on dry fire app is accurate. Some of the vertical spread on this group was due to my posture, I am pretty sure. Because I'm working on movement now, I am working on getting lower in my stance and more ready to take off...sometimes I find my upper body getting hunched over a little, and I think when I did that I shot a little lower, since I was going on index not so much on vision.
At 15 yards, I am not comfortable. The group is large and the times were right on the edge of the drill's parameters. Once I get out past 10 yards I get timid. The draw itself tends to slow down even though I don't want it to. So I need to work on still pushing to draw just as fast as at 3 yards and then take time to get the dot stabilized where I want it. This is mental.
At 7 yards I went too fast on the middle pair and the second shots of each pair were basically blind. The second shot on the 1.24 string was off the paper. Can't get going ahead of my sights at that range.
Looking forward to adding this to the dry fire routine.
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.
Moylan you are smokin'!
Indeed, at 3 yards it's pretty much all index.
Though I'm much more capable doing things like this with a RDS, it's entirely doable with irons. I think the dot is just forcing us to hone the index that much more. One of the first things I learned in my still new dot journey was how valuable a training aid it is.
See, long before I had dots on guns, I'd do drills, and find myself "in the zone", those times when you just bring the gun up FAST, and PRESS PRESS PRESS, and you get good hits, almost like magic.....I'd call it "using the force". And it's just your index being dialed in perfectly at that moment. It's a great feeling, and one I'd like to experience more often.
Repetition is the mother of skill, amd I look forward to shooting this drill after a month of diligent, highly applied training. I think if done right and consistently, all of us will see some kind of progress.
As far as recoil control during rapid fire, Andy Stanford's "Surgical Speed Shooting" really turned the light on, for me.
He describes the perfect grip as one that does not inhibit, but allows, recoil to happen, and the gun naturally returns to point of aim.
Then timing the next press with that return is the key. The front sight (or these days, dot), should be like a bouncing ball, press when it's back down.
JCN is right, the quicker you get the gun out there, the more tenths of a second you have to refine if need be.
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