I agree though maybe a group journal would work, too.Originally Posted by JCS
I agree though maybe a group journal would work, too.
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.
I did SWYNTS dry and live today. Dry, it went great. Taking the time to do the visualizations is really helping me get my grip and trigger finger where I want them. I think I mentioned awhile back that I wasn't sure I was actually making the time on the 3 yard string...well, see below.
Live fire wasn't as good as I'd hoped, especially at 3 yards. Here are two caveats. I'd already done a very full dry fire session this morning and my hands are tired out. And I am working on changing grip and trigger finger placement, and this is my first time live firing with the new approaches. I think I definitely see some results from that which are encouraging, but will just need more live fire to sort out.
That said, here's what happened.
15 yards total spread of 8" wide and 5" high.
2:00 = didn't write draw or split
1:81 = 1:44 and :37
1:88 = 1:50 and :38
1:77 = 1:46 and :31
1:79 = 1:41 and :38
My sense about the 15 yard shooting today is twofold. First, I do not trust myself to make the time live and I am rushing more than necessary. Second, I am seeing considerably more horizontal spread than vertical, which I believe is coming from a new grip pressure. I was happy with my trigger presses, and I do not believe I really yanked any shots off target. Even the one flyer I dropped from the measurements was off to the left and was called. It was just that I rushed the shot, not that I had bad trigger control. So I believe I am seeing some good results from my work on trigger control at speed.
7 yards total spread of 6 3/4 high and 5 wide
1:49 = 1:30 and :19
1:38 = 1:19 and :19
1:53 = 1:36 and :17
1:67 = 1:49 and :18
1:65 = 1:48 and :17
This started out really well. I got tight on the fourth and fifth and just slowed down on the draw. The very positive thing about this is that my splits were natural didn't feel rushed at that distance. I have always tended to be more of a :25 shooter at 7 yards.
3 yards total spread of 6 high and 7 1/4 wide **
1:10 = :94 and :16
1:07 = :91 and :16
1:02 = :86 and :16
:99 = :83 and :16
**:99 = :84 and :15
I shot the last string after doing a string where I got trigger freeze on shot #2 and had a :35 split. The draw on that one was :85, so the total was 1:20. I was obviously pushing to make the times, and got tense. In my previous live fire attempt at this, I made the times, so this is slower. But I was working at first to see the dot well, like I've been doing in dry fire, and that slowed me down some.
All in all, I think it was a good day. I will be more attentive to the times at 3 yards in dry, and I will continue to try to get that grip neutral. I think I'm making strides even if it doesn't look so much like it. Certainly the 15 yard effort was much better this time than the first time!
EDIT: This was my first live fire:
Biggest difference, after more careful review, is that the groups are smaller, especially at 15 yards. (Actually fairly comparable at 3.) And I was a little faster on the 15 yard shots this time, though that wasn't the goal. I need to attend to taking the whole 2 seconds and refine the shots a little more.15 yards: group size was 9 1/4 vertical x 8 1/2 horizontal. Times were 1.87, 1.96, 2.04, 1.91 and 1.85.
7 yards: group size was 7 1/4 x 7 3/4. Times were 1.46, 1.47, 1.24, 1.35 and 1.42
3 yards: group size was 8 1/2 x 4 1/2. Times were 1.05, 1.17, .98, .95 and .95.
Last edited by Moylan; 01-19-2023 at 01:09 PM.
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.
Awesome job! Those 7 yards splits are getting spicy!
@Moylan I’ll refer you back a couple years to when we first started, look at you now! Not a turtle on draws or splits and a solid B class gamer.
Great progress.
I’m going to make some specific challenges to you.
First the context:
Gains are going to be hard won for you at this stage and higher.
Smaller groups and more confidence and reproducibility are the goal. Hit it on demand as expected.
That’s solid improvement on the 15.
Keep working it. Going to challenge you to stay within a 6” circle centered around the aiming spot for the 15 yard.
For the 3 yard, I want you to process what you learned. You went slower and despite seeing more dot… groups did not shrink.
What does that tell you?
That you didn’t need to see more, maybe?
Break down that distance next time you live fire.
Try and mark first and seconds shots in a different color marker.
Are your first shots tighter but the second shots are causing the spread?
If so then it’s working recoil vision and maybe sacrifice a little vision on the draw to buy 0.03 on the split to better time and track it?
More breaking down of what’s causing what.
Great job and good stuff, buddy.
Confidence is definitely something I am working on. I need to live fire more, but currently not in a position to. One thing I didn't mention above--my massive slow-down at 7 yards starting on the 4th pass? What happened there was that after the 3rd pair, I noticed the target--very sweet-looking group of 6 shots very nicely placed and close together. And I thought, more or less, "oh, that looks great, I better not mess up now," and got all tight and cautious. So naturally I messed it up.
Got it.Keep working it. Going to challenge you to stay within a 6” circle centered around the aiming spot for the 15 yard.
Yep.For the 3 yard, I want you to process what you learned. You went slower and despite seeing more dot… groups did not shrink.
What does that tell you?
That you didn’t need to see more, maybe?
OK. Thanks for this!Break down that distance next time you live fire.
Try and mark first and seconds shots in a different color marker.
Are your first shots tighter but the second shots are causing the spread?
If so then it’s working recoil vision and maybe sacrifice a little vision on the draw to buy 0.03 on the split to better time and track it?
More breaking down of what’s causing what.
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.
One thing I am noticing is the difference in hand speed on the draws. In theory, they should be the same for all three distances but mine aren't, particularly on the 15 yard target. I get comfortable and slow down. I am going to film my draws to compare but I already know this is happening based off my times in the drill. My draw from 3-15 yards is a difference in .6-.7. I'm not refining for that long, I'm just slowing the draw. Because of this I'm rushing the visual part of refining the index.
I’m doing this too. Someone mentioned starting at the 3 to kind of set a pace. I have basically been doing 3,15,7,3 every dry practice now, and i think it’s helping build a default faster draw. I think it’s also helping me remove part of the process from my foremind and letting me focus on others parts. (Probably largely because if the draw reps) (JCN has been saying this from the get-go but sometimes ya just have to experience things first hand)
Yep, I'm fighting this, too!
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.
@Moylan
@Risto
@JCS
Explosive movements to cut dead time and take the time where you need to take the time.
Basically don’t waste time in things that don’t buy you anything.
That philosophy will serve you well at matches too.
You don’t just walk into a difficult shot position.
You run in and stabilize. Move fast when you can move fast.
Slow down when you need to slow down.
Simple, right?
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