The traditional rifle sights on 870s were nice, but I REALLY like the low profile rifle sights (Basically express sights) Remington came up with. I replace the front sight with a slightly larger "bead" with tritium in it (From XS sights). This set up allows the speed of a bead sight with the shallow V rear for accuracy. I have no problem hitting B/C steel at 100 yards using slugs.Originally Posted by TCinVA
The trad Remington rifle sights on the 870/1100 barrels were fine to use, but for me they were like a hook that continually snagged on the wrong stuff at the wrong time. That was why I went with the low-profile, XS-equipped DEA barrels. I have since handled a "dehorned" a trad 870 rifle-sighted barrel, and it was much less annoying.
I don't know if I am getting wiser with age or am getting early onset dementia, but lately I am coming to the conclusion that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence, and I may just keep the 870P.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
for the purposes of nomenclature/comparison...
This is what I have on my 870P that I love.
The Benelli in question *does* appear a bit lower. I'd definitely prefer the 870 style if the A300 was to get barrel-mounted rifle sights
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I've never been particularly fond of a bead sight on a defensive gun at all. I find that the low profile sights make it really easy to...just like with the bead...get the front sight high and consequently throw shots high. Especially at speed.
To give some context, when I say "speed" I'm talking about mounting the gun and firing an accurate shot in ~ 4/10'ths of a second. Physiology will play a role here, but when the comb of the stock hits my cheekbone with the taller Remington sights, the front sight is dead center in the rear notch and it's sitting on exactly the spot I'm looking at on the target. When the stock hits my cheekbone with the low profile sights, the front sight is sitting up off the V by a significant enough margin to cause a shot to go high. I have to drive my head down deliberately into the stock to get the sights properly aligned.
1/10, do not recommend.
Everybody might not have that problem because everybody might not have my arrangement of high cheekbones and deep set eyes...but I do see clients with that kind of arrangement struggling more with it than they do when I hand them one of my guns with the taller Remington style sights. Most often they struggle with it because they, too, have to deliberately drive their head into the comb of the stock to get the sights to align properly. Which is uncomfortable and easy to forget to do.
I sacrifice absolutely nothing with the taller rifle style sights on an 870, especially not with the TruGlo sight set installed on it. I'm mounting the gun and firing a shot in under half a second. I'm able to shoot just under .3 splits with it and get hits. I can transition in about the same time frame if I push. I can easily use slugs at distance and buckshot with accuracy at speed at closer range.
I mean, when I can use a gun with ghost ring sights to do this:
https://fb.watch/kRRMdSNZGl/
...I don't see the bead being faster.
I've never found the bead to be anything but a handicap when it comes to using defensive loads in a shotgun. Especially at speed.
I use rifle sights on my 870 the same way I use them on my pistol. If the target is bigger than my rear sight window and my front sight is in it, I press the trigger. If the target is smaller than my rear sight window, I put the tip of my front sight on it and very carefully break the shot. If the target is smaller than my front sight, I put the very center of the very tip of the front sight on the target and press the trigger as precisely as I can.
There's no real reason why iron sights on a shotgun can't be used at the same kinds of speeds that we use them on pistols. But I think there, just like on pistols, most people are using them in a most inefficient way. I'm hardly ever focused on my front sight when I'm shooting my shotgun at speed. I'm target focused and I can see enough of the sights to know whether or not I'm going to get the hit required by looking "through" the sights.
If I need to fire an accurate slug shot or a shot at distance I will focus more on the front sight.
Last edited by TCinVA; 05-30-2023 at 11:02 AM.
3/15/2016
They do tend to sit up enough where they might snag on things...but so will any ghost-ring style sight on any shotgun in that matter. I've had my 870s in the woods a fair bit and I haven't found that the sights were the primary things getting snagged on brush, etc.
The DEA sights seem like a good idea, but they just sit too low for me and make it more difficult to shoot with precision at distance. The big problem with dot-the-i style sights is that it can be really difficult to tell if you don't have the front dot settled properly on the rear line. That can start to be significant when you're shooting slugs at distance. I don't like that kind of sight on a pistol and I don't like it any better on a shotgun for the same reasons. I have the XS style express sights on one of my 870's with the traditional ramp and that gun hardly gets used compared to my post-and-notch sight equipped guns because it's just easier to get that sight picture wrong.
3/15/2016
Years ago we took three 870's to the range. One had a bead sight, one had a set of Wilson ghost rings, and the other had the factory rifle sights but replaced with the Trijicons. On a variety of problems and shooters, the big rifle sights just worked better whether shooting steel targets, paper targets, or thrown clay pigeons. They were almost as fast as the bead but allowed the refined accuracy of the ghost ring if you cleaned up the sight picture. If you goal is to convert your 870 to a .72 caliber carbine, they may not be ideal as the front sight is pretty wide at 100 yards but for the likely use of the shotgun, they are about right.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
Did you get the 1301-specific model with the wide groove machined into the tube exterior?
Either way, as long as the tube doesn't unscrew, all's well.
Matt Haught
SYMTAC Consulting LLC
https://sym-tac.com
My tube extension looks identical to the one they're advertising on their site right now and though it's been a while I remember it being a 1301 specific kit when I ordered it. So I'm gonna go with "yes".
This is my Number 1 gun circa early 2020...you can see the wear from the clamp moving under recoil on the barrel:
3/15/2016
Tracks with what I see.
I have people show up to class with all kinds of sights on their shotguns and I never see people using rifle-style irons, ghost rings, or red dots not able to perform due to the sighting system on their gun. I do see people with bead sights routinely throwing shots high and struggling to actually land shots in the vitals of a photorealistic target when I just drop the steel and put paper up. They are usually slower because they are second guessing their sight picture once they mount the gun whereas people with better sights have a lot more information to feed "good enough" and can just go.
If you are blessed with the golden physiology that allows you to see a perfect bead-sighted sight picture when you mount a typical defensive shotgun and you perform well with it, rock on. But what I have seen over the years is that typical defensive shotguns are not working anything close to that well for the typical person and that absent a useful rear sight of some sort they really struggle to get a useful enough sight picture to make the hit they need to make. If we're talking landing a couple of pellets on a huge piece of steel it doesn't matter...but in class I use a piece of steel that is slightly smaller than a USPSA C-zone and I emphasize accountability for fired pellets (meaning they all end up in the bad guy) when we shoot photorealistic targets. Under those circumstances the bead shooters who do well tend to be much more skilled than average.
Most people with beads struggle to make their hits under the ideal circumstances of slowfire at 15 yards. The wheels really come off once I put them in scored and timed courses of fire.
And this is just if we're talking about using the gun on our strong side in a comfortable position. It turns into a real shitshow when I have folks work from the support shoulder or unconventional positions.
3/15/2016
The bead vs. whatever debate is another place where I think sporting use of the shotgun interferes with understanding. Clay shooters who are serious about their sport have custom fitted guns. Your typical cop or defense-minded citizen doesn't have that on their defensive gun.
When a good clay gun is set up, your eyeball is basically the rear sight. The setup of the gun is such that when you mount it the barrel is in perfect relationship to your eye to facilitate throwing a cloud of lead as much as 10x the size of your target out there. (Except on rabbits, where you are typically engaging them close and fast and have to use the bead because there isn't enough spread in the pattern at those ranges) Some clay shooters don't even really look at the bead at all.
That's all fine and dandy for clay shooting. But ideally we don't even mount the gun the same way when using a defensive shotgun as we do shooting birds or clay because defensive shooting isn't tracking small, fast moving targets through the air. It's tracking slower moving targets on the ground in close quarters where we need to retain the ability to move and to deal with real recoil from buckshot and slugs. It's a completely different world from the typical sporting use of the shotgun.
3/15/2016
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