A300 Ultima Patrol

[LHS]

I think there's a lot of individual physiology at play when it comes to sight preference. I can't shoot the tall 870 slug sights for crap, mostly because the front sight is too fine for my crappy right eye to pick up, especially at speed. I've played around with options for replacing the rear leaf and front post and have a couple setups that work for me, but I'd just as soon get a lopped-off 'friendly ghost' rear and a FO post front and I'm good to go. Those wide V-notch express-style sights (i.e. DEA sights) suck for me because for whatever reason, I have a hell of a time setting proper elevation with them. Mill that V into a big wide U-notch, though, and I can run it well. Go figure.

But Tim's right about the bead-only setup. It's few and far between the shooters who can run those well, and IMHO most of them could do even better with real sights for social work.

[kev8287]

I think there's a lot of individual physiology at play when it comes to sight preference. I can't shoot the tall 870 slug sights for crap, mostly because the front sight is too fine for my crappy right eye to pick up, especially at speed. I've played around with options for replacing the rear leaf and front post and have a couple setups that work for me, but I'd just as soon get a lopped-off 'friendly ghost' rear and a FO post front and I'm good to go. Those wide V-notch express-style sights (i.e. DEA sights) suck for me because for whatever reason, I have a hell of a time setting proper elevation with them. Mill that V into a big wide U-notch, though, and I can run it well. Go figure.

But Tim's right about the bead-only setup. It's few and far between the shooters who can run those well, and IMHO most of them could do even better with real sights for social work.

Reference shotgun sights. I agree with all who say the original bead or the bead on the pedestal are good for defensive work. Also mounting the shotgun is the equivalent to presenting a handgun. If done poorly or improperly the getting an accurate first shot will not occur. As was stated above, much of this is subjective to the individual. One thing I have noticed is that many use a stock that is to long and this has negative effects on their presentation. I imagine it would be similar to having a handgun that was to large for the shooters hands. I (like many of you) have used numerous iron sight systems on my shotguns, bead, multiple types of ghost rings, the traditional Remington rifle sights, and the Benelli rifle sights, and the current Remington low profile rifle sights.

I will say the XS style sights with the front replaced with a slightly larger sight improves on the older style bead sights, but the V rear offers the ability to deliver more accurate fire.

I also agree the shotguns and I suspect other long guns can be used at close range like handguns, but the individual must understand how their sighting system works.

[perlslacker]

I shot beads on defensive/practical shotguns for a long time but that was because "dadgummit, I've shot beads on shotguns since I was 8 and I'm not gonna stop now." I had gotten used to contorting myself around ill-fitting shotguns when shooting clays, and I could make it work OK on defensive shotguns. However, after getting shotguns done up with dots and ghost rings, I wish I'd done this sooner.

I grew up having to bury my head on the stock to get a decent sight picture when shooting, and I had semipermanent swelling on my right jaw as a result.

All you have to do is use a different front post. Unless something changed, it should be the same config as the 1301 and quite similar to an M2.

On this note, does anyone have a recommendation for a fiber optic front sight that is the same height as the 1301 Tactical front sight post? I'm not against using the stock 1301 FSP but I'd like to get FO if I can.

[perlslacker]

None of that was to say that I wouldn't love a Precision Fit Stock on a defensive shotgun, but a) they don't make them for autoloaders, b) they cost 1301 Tac money just by themselves, and c) shooting weak-handed would be absolutely out of the question

[Ben_G]

A couple of things to clarify:

1) The A300 was never made to replace or even really fight the 1301, it was made to offer another as much of the 1301 as possible at a sustainable price point. If there was any platform we had in our crosshairs with the UP, it was the M2 tactical.... But yes, a seat for everyone.

2) The gas piston on the A300 UP came off the 1301; they are functionally identical (the mounting plate to the barrel is different due to the different barrel profiles, but that's it). The major mechanical differences in that area of the platforms are in the action from the operating rod back.

[LHS]

I shot beads on defensive/practical shotguns for a long time but that was because "dadgummit, I've shot beads on shotguns since I was 8 and I'm not gonna stop now." I had gotten used to contorting myself around ill-fitting shotguns when shooting clays, and I could make it work OK on defensive shotguns. However, after getting shotguns done up with dots and ghost rings, I wish I'd done this sooner.

I grew up having to bury my head on the stock to get a decent sight picture when shooting, and I had semipermanent swelling on my right jaw as a result.



On this note, does anyone have a recommendation for a fiber optic front sight that is the same height as the 1301 Tactical front sight post? I'm not against using the stock 1301 FSP but I'd like to get FO if I can.

The older I get, the more I like a 4MOA dot on a gauge.

[mmc45414]

This fit talk prompts me to mention that one thing I consider to be a great feature of the Beretta autoloader guns, including the A300 UP (as I mentioned here), is the adjustable stock. Not just the length of pull, but the drop and cast. Cast will either be left or right, but there are a lotta options on drop. This enabled me to use the factory stock on my 1301-T (sold) and 1301-Comp to set them just like the 391 I have thousands of rounds through. Then when I mounted an MRO in a Rusty Nutz mount on the Comp I was able to move the stock up so it was in great register behind the dot without farting around with any kind of riser.

I think this is an underappreciated feature of these guns, and am glad it is retained on the A300-UP, and it is making me want one even more...

[kev8287]

Currently, my preferred stock is MagPuls. Unfortunately, they are not made for the M1 Super 90.

[TCinVA]

This weekend's class in Miamisburg, OH is the first time I've had production 300 UP's show up to class. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they all ran like a top. The owners of said shotguns very quickly adapted to the instruction provided and were able to mount and fire an accurate shot on a very small steel plate at 15 yards in .6-.75 second from a low ready. And they were able to transition between targets in .6-.75 of a second, depending on how far apart/difficult the transition was. (keeping track of exactly which plate in the array you have to shoot next, etc) Their ghost ring sights or optics didn't seem to slow them down.

Unsurprisingly, other shooters who had bead-sighted shotguns struggled to make hits on the plates once we picked up speed and accuracy requirements, usually throwing shots high and struggling to get their windage and elevation dialed in when it came time to pattern their guns on paper.

When asked in the moment if they felt "faster" with their beads compared to the other guys with ghost rings, iron sights, or dot optics on their guns, they reported that they did not, in fact, feel like they were faster with the bead.

[gato naranja]

This weekend's class in Miamisburg, OH is the first time I've had production 300 UP's show up to class. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they all ran like a top. The owners of said shotguns very quickly adapted to the instruction provided and were able to mount and fire an accurate shot on a very small steel plate at 15 yards in .6-.75 second from a low ready. And they were able to transition between targets in .6-.75 of a second, depending on how far apart/difficult the transition was. (keeping track of exactly which plate in the array you have to shoot next, etc) Their ghost ring sights or optics didn't seem to slow them down.

Unsurprisingly, other shooters who had bead-sighted shotguns struggled to make hits on the plates once we picked up speed and accuracy requirements, usually throwing shots high and struggling to get their windage and elevation dialed in when it came time to pattern their guns on paper.

When asked in the moment if they felt "faster" with their beads compared to the other guys with ghost rings, iron sights, or dot optics on their guns, they reported that they did not, in fact, feel like they were faster with the bead.

Sometimes old ways die hard.

From the very beginning, I sucked with a bead only shotgun, and I knew I sucked. That is why I became a user of "cop-sighted" 870 barrels- I had little choice. To this day I do not care for a front bead only setup, and on longer shots with them, "slow" would be an understatement.