A300 Ultima Patrol

[rob_s]

Tried both.

Liked it better without the extra doodads.

I tie the end in a self locking knot and fills most of the space inside the sling anyway.

And just to give you an option #3…
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CkUiZDt...RlODBiNWFlZA==

275 is, presumably, half of 550?

[rob_s]

In Langdons you tube video on the A300 vice 1301 he claims the 1301 has less felt recoil than the A300. A very subjective thing to evaluate I know but I would like a few more opinions from those with the experience.

Both are gas operated though of a very different action design. The A300 weighs roughly a half pound more than the 1301. The 1301 is claimed to have a wider operating range of light loads (a real advantage, no doubt).

Assuming both shooting the same low recoil load I can't see a significant difference between the two existing. Always insuring that the A300 works well with it.

Any opinions?

I'd be interested to know that too.

I should have known, but didn't, that the 300 was heavier.

Besides cost, my goal of getting a 300 is that it's built in the same platform as our clays guns to make the wife feel more comfortable with it, but if it's heavier and recoils more then I think the 1301 might be with the price and whatever minimal perceived platform differences given my intent.

[CSW]

While I have never fired a 1300, the recoil of the 300UP is very, very manageable.
The Mrs is 4'11", tiny build, and had no problem with it.
Food of choice was flight control buck, and some #6 bird hi brass for what she shot.

For comparison, I've owned the 1100, and 1187.
This, to me, feels softer than the 1187.

[Caballoflaco]

@rob_s rather than worrying about recoil differences maybe just have her shoot some defensive loads through her A300 and if she doesn’t mind the recoil then then no need to worry about a 1301, just get an ultima patrol?

It’s possible that what Langdon perceives in recoil is probably more fine-tuned than what your wife who shoots clays 6 times a year will be able to perceive.

[Jason M]

I have shot both the 1301 and A300UP. I wouldn't call one "lighter" in recoil vs the other. The UP just feels different. It is more of a "kathnk" type of felt impulse where the 1301 is smoother. A function of the faster cycling 1301 system?

Both were shot using the same full power FC buck, reduced recoil FC buck and misc left over birdshot. Both cycled everything without issue.

When the A300 arrived at my local cop shop I compared both guns with an employee. I was debating getting one and we were doing a "cost benefit" analysis. I thought the A300 felt lighter. We weighed both guns with the same mag tubes on a high quality shipping scale. They were exactly the same weight.

[TCinVA]

In Langdons you tube video on the A300 vice 1301 he claims the 1301 has less felt recoil than the A300. A very subjective thing to evaluate I know but I would like a few more opinions from those with the experience.

I've run them back to back multiple times. The A300 does have a little more felt recoil than the 1301.

...but...

That's comparing a 1301 that has been fully Aridus'd out with a different stock on it to the A300UP in its factory configuration. Where exactly the stock ends up on your anatomy matters. Ideally we'd like a defensive shotgun to mount essentially on the pectoral muscles rather than on the shoulder joint. The closer the gun is to the shoulder joint, the more you're going to really feel the unpleasant parts of recoil if your mitigation isn't sufficiently well timed. (Which is hard to do on a semi-auto when shooting rapidly)

I've not had the chance to shoot a bone stock 1301 and an A300UP back to back. Would I be able to tell which I was shooting if I were blindfolded? I have no idea. At some point I actually want to try that kind of blind taste test.

Now as to how much "more" recoil I feel behind the A300UP, if I had to quantify it by percentage it's a max of 10% with stouter loads.

Both are gas operated though of a very different action design. The A300 weighs roughly a half pound more than the 1301. The 1301 is claimed to have a wider operating range of light loads (a real advantage, no doubt).

The 1301's design is newer and more sophisticated and does a great job of handling a wide range of loads. The A300UP, however, uses essentially the same gas ring and piston setup as the 1301. The op rod and bolt are different. It's more sensitive to ammunition selection than the 1301, but "more" doesn't mean much based on what I've seen on the range. I've not seen a UP show up and have any issue running whatever ammo has been fed to it. Usually when one shows up it becomes the village bicycle and people feed it from whatever they've brought. I've not seen someone try and run one with Winchester AA low recoil, low noise rounds that I've seen a 1301 digest with an amazing level of reliability...but I suspect it wouldn't fare too badly with that either given how the UP was tuned for FFC low recoil loads.

Assuming both shooting the same low recoil load I can't see a significant difference between the two existing.

Shooting LRFC back to back in them it's tough for me to say I could actually reliably pick which I was shooting if the shotguns were set up identically and I was blindfolded.

The UP seems to have a little more "thump" in how it feels behind the gun compared to the 1301...but the differences are minor, at least based on my time behind the gun. Others I've put behind both usually have the same "maybe a little more" reaction on the UP compared to the 1301. But the general reaction is that there's significant strain and concentration required to note a difference.

I've not had anyone come from shooting the 1301 and then shoot the UP and go "Wow, this is way different."

[314159]

The two shotguns I compared/weighed were not set up identically.

The 1301 had an Aridus forend, a Magpul stock, and a Nordic 1 round extra mag tube (plus an Aridus follower for 922R considerations). The A300UP was factory standard.

The LOP of the 1301 with two spacers was shorter than the factory A300. Presently, I am unaware of a shorter A300 stock available.

I suspect felt recoil differences might entirely be a factor of that LOP difference you note. Given the reliability equivalence perhaps the choice between the two shotguns boils down to cost and sleeve length.

If you're rich and short get a 1301. If you're a poor and/or tall A300. Life isn't ever fair.

[rob_s]

@rob_s rather than worrying about recoil differences maybe just have her shoot some defensive loads through her A300 and if she doesn’t mind the recoil then then no need to worry about a 1301, just get an ultima patrol?

It’s possible that what Langdon perceives in recoil is probably more fine-tuned than what your wife who shoots clays 6 times a year will be able to perceive.

I wouldn't base my decision solely on perceived recoil (although given my wife, it's not an insignificant issue) but it's one of the factors.

I see the benefits of the 1301 for my purposes being

1. possibly perceived lesser recoil
2. lighter weight
3. shorter potential stock
4. flexing on poors

[Caballoflaco]

I wouldn't base my decision solely on perceived recoil (although given my wife, it's not an insignificant issue) but it's one of the factors.

I see the benefits of the 1301 for my purposes being

1. possibly perceived lesser recoil
2. lighter weight
3. shorter potential stock
4. flexing on poors

As the happy owner of a 1301 comp I won’t try to talk you out of one.

[LHS]

The two shotguns I compared/weighed were not set up identically.

The 1301 had an Aridus forend, a Magpul stock, and a Nordic 1 round extra mag tube (plus an Aridus follower for 922R considerations). The A300UP was factory standard.

The LOP of the 1301 with two spacers was shorter than the factory A300. Presently, I am unaware of a shorter A300 stock available.

I suspect felt recoil differences might entirely be a factor of that LOP difference you note. Given the reliability equivalence perhaps the choice between the two shotguns boils down to cost and sleeve length.

If you're rich and short get a 1301. If you're a poor and/or tall A300. Life isn't ever fair.

That LOP on the 1301 is one of the most versatile on the market short of cutting down a wood stock. With an Aridus adapter and Magpul stock + a KickEez thin recoil pad, my 1301 has a LOP of 11-3/4", which has come in very handy for training smaller-statured shooters. It was the only gun that would work for at least one student.

That said, given how popular the a300 has become over the past year, I wouldn't be surprised if the aftermarket starts coming up with shorter solutions.