Shotgun vs. AR w/10 rd Mags

[MickAK]

(What do we think about AR w/10 rd mags vs a shotgun?)

I would still go with AR outside of my home. Precision as a reason. Places I know the distances and backing real well, shotgun all day.

Is there a legal reason you went with a Shockwave over a 1301 Trashcannon? I haven't followed the new laws much.

[Clusterfrack]

I would still go with AR outside of my home. Precision as a reason. Places I know the distances and backing real well, shotgun all day.

Is there a legal reason you went with a Shockwave over a 1301 Trashcannon? I haven't followed the new laws much.

I’m at the same conclusion, pretty much. Why Shockwave? It was cheap, and I’ve never owned a pump so I figured why not?

[Clusterfrack]

As an engineer who's experience is nearing the three-decade mark, and who used to routinely work with signal-to-noise ratios, I can say we want the signal-to-noise ratio to be high.

But do we really?

[Lester Polfus]

What do we think about AR w/10 rd mags vs a shotgun?)

Funny you should mention that, because I have been pondering that same question.

First, I understand everyone’s concerns about the mag ban, but I still consider 10 rounds to be a lot of rounds put down range by a civilian defender with a long gun, so I’m not terribly bothered by it from a sheerly defensive stand point.

Second, one of the biggest drivers for me is the fact that Washington (and I believe Oregon) prohibit carrying loaded long guns in vehicles. A magazine fed AR can be made ready much quicker than a tube fed shotgun can be stoked with individual rounds. I don’t think any of the box magazine fed shotguns are ready for prime time. If the AR is a “pistol” with a “brace” I think someone with a CHL can carry one loaded in a vehicle. I have no idea how the law would treat a loaded Shockwave.

Third, I’m not sure I care. I don’t routinely carry a long gun in a vehicle for defensive purposes. The circumstances where I would carry one would be times when the violation for having a loaded long gun in my vehicle would be the least of my worries.

I’m debating between a Shockwave or a Ruger American Ranch that eats .300 BLK out of AR mags. I really don’t need either one, but I might buy one (or both) because guns are cool.

For issues around vehicles, I really like shotgun slugs.

[DanTheWolfman]

I'm going to assume that if the person is going to carry in car carrying an Other Weapon which isn't a long gun in car should be legal, baring both overall lengths for concealment and barrel lengths for concealment, AND barrel length definitions of PISTOL in that STATE. Lots of these state laws deal with length that matter.

Shock it w minibuck backed by minislugs. Buck safer low round count around cars engagement, if get to cars buck blows out windows if they duck mini slugs through car doors kinda thing.

Can an S model cycle 4-5 minishells then 2 3/4" slugs end of tube without issue? I've done that with M&P12 to test, don't know about the S models. Mossberg's site says interchangeably so assume so? Then full power slugs in side saddle.

[Hambo]

Funny you should mention that, because I have been pondering that same question.

First, I understand everyone’s concerns about the mag ban, but I still consider 10 rounds to be a lot of rounds put down range by a civilian defender with a long gun, so I’m not terribly bothered by it from a sheerly defensive stand point.

Second, one of the biggest drivers for me is the fact that Washington (and I believe Oregon) prohibit carrying loaded long guns in vehicles. A magazine fed AR can be made ready much quicker than a tube fed shotgun can be stoked with individual rounds. I don’t think any of the box magazine fed shotguns are ready for prime time. If the AR is a “pistol” with a “brace” I think someone with a CHL can carry one loaded in a vehicle. I have no idea how the law would treat a loaded Shockwave.

Third, I’m not sure I care. I don’t routinely carry a long gun in a vehicle for defensive purposes. The circumstances where I would carry one would be times when the violation for having a loaded long gun in my vehicle would be the least of my worries.

I’m debating between a Shockwave or a Ruger American Ranch that eats .300 BLK out of AR mags. I really don’t need either one, but I might buy one (or both) because guns are cool.

For issues around vehicles, I really like shotgun slugs.

I like the way you think. If the ratio of attackers to Hambo is such that Hambo need 30 rounds, it probably means Hambo won't live to empty the mag. I don't carry a rifle in my car because it's prone to theft, if I pull it out to save people I expect that the first responding LEOs will see me light me up, and the one time I wished I had one next to the car seat (in Orlando), un-assing the area at a high rate of speed was better than the attacker to Hambo ratio.

[Caballoflaco]

I think it was @GJM who raised the option of a .308. I strongly prefer light, short 'long guns', so I don't own any .308 autos and don't plan to. Good point about brush. I would think a slug might do very well for that.

I can explain this confusion. When I read your original post asking about thoughts on ARs with 10 round mags my brain added another 10 and I read it as Ar10 with 10 round magazines.

Re the ongoing discussion about long guns against cars/cover. We had a fairly high profile robbery turned murder last year where the bad guy, using an AR pistol in .35 Legend, fired one round into a car that was trying to drive away. Per courtroom reporting the round entered the trunk through the license plate and then went through the rear seat and the passenger before striking the passenger in the torso and killing her.

From internet reading, not direct experience, 10 round mags do seem to eliminate or greatly reduce the squankiness of feeding other intermediate calibers in the AR platform like 6.8spc and 6.5 Grendel.

[GJM]

I had the impression that the goal was to have something that would be ten round compliant, able to solve an animal or human issue in remote areas, and that AR pistols were off the table because of a pending Oregon law. That is why I suggested a .308 rifle in the form of a SCAR or Browning DBM. If you are going to carry fewer cartridges, might as well make them bigger ones.

[Lester Polfus]

I like the way you think. If the ratio of attackers to Hambo is such that Hambo need 30 rounds, it probably means Hambo won't live to empty the mag. I don't carry a rifle in my car because it's prone to theft, if I pull it out to save people I expect that the first responding LEOs will see me light me up, and the one time I wished I had one next to the car seat (in Orlando), un-assing the area at a high rate of speed was better than the attacker to Hambo ratio.

We're drifting, but this is a shit thread anyway, so why not?

In an urban/suburban context I 100% agree with you. In Clusterfrack's defense, he's talking about a rural/wilderness gun. I'm a mile from a national forest and spend a bunch of time driving around and woods bumming where there is no cell service or county deputy but there are still scrotes, so this is a context where a long gun makes sense to me.

I don't think a 12 gauge (Shockwave or otherwise), .300 BLK, or .308 are "wrong" in this setting at all, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. One advantage of the 12 Gauge is that it has utility beyond defensive work. If things get truly weird, it's a great meat getter as you can kill everything from small game to elk simply by changing loads.

As I type this, I'm realizing that I have a perfectly good lever action .357 with a new red dot mount/BUIS setup that needs zeroed. I put all that together over a month ago and still haven't had a chance to get out and zero it. The fact that I'm taking my brain for a walk on the idea of a new gun is probably a sign I've been working too much and not spending enough time out in the woods shooting the stuff I already own.

[DanTheWolfman]

Throwing it out there as a 10 round option...and a bigger caliber option...yet better ballistics than a similar super short 5.56. If .300 BO isn't the choice another option would be an AK pistol 7.62x39 with a Single point sling attached assuming we a BRACE F'd. Remains maneuverable enough to get out of a truck quickly, better momentum/ballistics vs car or vs animal, and flaming fireballs that tell BG's to get the F out of dodge.

Still a pistol in car per Oregon Law I Believe.

I don't love that option in general, but for this specific criteria it could be an option.