Shotgun vs. AR w/10 rd Mags

[Lester Polfus]

4) if you have a can, you can load up some .300 for that Ruger that would allow you to be sneaky at double your GP100 ranges.

Yup. And that's one of the reasons why I've been taking my brain for a walk on this issue. I think I'd like to own a can. My hearing isn't getting any better. And while I don't spend a bunch of time thinking about TEOTWAKI or other type scenarios, if we wind up in the middle of another great depression with attendant supply chain disruptions, the ability to hunt game quietly might be right handy. I do enjoy hunting with a longbow, but if it's truly important to bring home meat, the rifle comes out.

Getting either my .308 bolt gun or my .357 lever gun threaded for a can costs a substantial fraction of a Ruger American Ranch in either .350 Legend or .300 Blk. Both the .300 and .350 are powder sippers compared to my .308, so they are a better choice when limited re-supply might be on the table.

I can be into a .300 BLK Ruger American Ranch with a Leupold 1.5 to 4x scope and a GemTech Tracker can for less than two grand, including new dies and a substantial stockpile of brass and other components. Many of those components are cross useful with stuff I already own, so I'd be SAVING MONEY.

[Dov]

One of many reasons why I'm now a cranky old fart that carries a revolver in the woods is that I get much better hits beyond 50 yards with a 4" GP100 revolver than I do a Glock 19. Also .357 has lots more zoots at extended ranges. I wouldn't suggest that a .357 is a substitute for a proper rifle, but it does inhabit a space beyond your regular service pistol offerings.

I've been reluctant to add new calibers because, logistics, but I had the epiphany that 1) It looks like people reload .357 Magnum with small rifle primers with no ill-effects and 2) Both .300 BLk and .350 Legend work with H110 powder and other powders useful to the .357, and 3) At least when it comes to practice projectiles the .300 BLK can use the same bullet as my .308. So if I went .300 BLK all I'd be adding is new brass. If the .350 Legend could use .357 pistol bullets it would be a no-brainer, but it sounds like that's a pretty iffy proposition in lots of cases.

Both Mas and the late Chuck Taylor have written about hits they could get from rollover prone at 100 yards with revolvers. Maybe for Mas it was foreword, written by someone else in one of Mas books, I've got to much of Mas writing to find it.

Think they and other have commented many times about revolvers generally being much more accurate than pistols.

I've thought for some time a red dot or pistol scoped 8 shot 357 or 44/45 mag revolver would give some range and precision befit over Glock.

A S&W X frame with 454 loads could give roughly equivalent performance to 44 Mag levergun, specifically this Hornday (9148) load https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001466839?pid=923495 way past typical handgun range.

Though a 300 Blk AR pistol would be far more practical.

[BehindBlueI's]

Would you please elaborate on this, I don’t get your meaning?

In a very literal sense, it looks like someone took a melon baller and scooped chunks of tissue out. The difference between pistol bullets that only damage (some of) what they touch vs the high velocity rifle round making the stretch cavity into permanent wounding is something else. Like seeing through a dude's hand from knuckle to wrist and then that bullet enters his chest. A handgun would do it, but you wouldn't see "light through the tunnel" , so to speak.

[mmc45414]

You had already gone to the 20rnd magazines. I know ten is half, but in an actual situation are you going to be in that protracted of an engagement before you would probably lose? Maybe figure out one of the couplers or some other baby (mag) on board arrangement.

OTOH, if a #1B shell has 15-16 projectiles, and a new 1301 carries 7-8 of them, that equals a lot more than the twenty rounds you have been comfortable with.

[mmc45414]

I've been reluctant to add new calibers because, logistics, but I had the epiphany that 1) It looks like people reload .357 Magnum with small rifle primers with no ill-effects and 2) Both .300 BLk and .350 Legend work with H110 powder and other powders useful to the .357, and 3) At least when it comes to practice projectiles the .300 BLK can use the same bullet as my .308. So if I went .300 BLK all I'd be adding is new brass.

And the brass is easy-peasy to make from the 223 (I think) you already have around. ETA: Or somebody would give you.
I also was pulled into the 300BO by the fact that the powder is something I would like to have around anyway.

[SwampDweller]

I find this to be an interesting subject I had not thought much about, but it's relevant since fate has it that I might be spending considerable time outside of my relatively free state, in ban states where my AR15's or AK74's would be limited to 10 rounds, and possibly other shenanigans if in places like California. No doubt that a shotgun loaded with 00 (or, as I understand from DocGKR, the more desirable #1 Buck), you get more projectiles downrange with 5-6 shots from a 12 gauge than 30 shots with an AR15/AK74. Only downside is, if you miss, all those projectiles miss and are moot. You have less pulls of the trigger allotted to you to perform the task laid before you.

I definitely believe in California, where one is not only limited in magazine capacity but other features as well that necessitate modifications which I feel complicate the gun even more and make it less reliable (whether in mechanical operation or user manipulation), I would rather have a Beretta 1301, Benelli M4, or Mossberg 590A1. If 6-9 rounds on board isn't enough... well, at least I'd still have my pistol, and maybe... just maybe, I could slip in a few shells. Either way, I wouldn't feel undergunned with 6 shots of Buck out of a reliable shotgun, especially if I also have a reliable handgun to back it up.

[whomever]

Welcome to The Suck.


Just as an FYI, you may want to look at these mag couplers from RFK Ventures. They attach two 10-round mags together in sort of a jungle mag configuration. It doesn't change capacity but does make a reload much easier (indexing a 10-round AR mag is difficult, for me at least). I don't have any experience on how well they'd hold up getting dumped on the ground but I've had no feeding issues with range use. Fortunately I've got grandfathered high caps in my state (for now) but I'd feel OK about a rifle with a couple of these mag couplers sitting in the safe for HD duty.

Just FWIW, before I used any kind of mag coupler, or taped mags together, in a mag size limit jurisdiction, I'd read the local legal definition of 'magazine' really carefully to make sure two taped together ten round mags didn't meet the definition of a twenty round mag.

If I was the judge, I'd call it two 10 round mags, because you have to eject/insert. But I dunno if every judge would rule that way.

[GJM]

Both Mas and the late Chuck Taylor have written about hits they could get from rollover prone at 100 yards with revolvers. Maybe for Mas it was foreword, written by someone else in one of Mas books, I've got to much of Mas writing to find it.

Think they and other have commented many times about revolvers generally being much more accurate than pistols.

I've thought for some time a red dot or pistol scoped 8 shot 357 or 44/45 mag revolver would give some range and precision befit over Glock.

A S&W X frame with 454 loads could give roughly equivalent performance to 44 Mag levergun, specifically this Hornday (9148) load https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001466839?pid=923495 way past typical handgun range.

Though a 300 Blk AR pistol would be far more practical.

For a handgun in the 50-100 yard envelope, I will take whichever one has the dot.

[Oldherkpilot]

For a handgun in the 50-100 yard envelope, I will take whichever one has the dot.

Amen.

[Chuck Whitlock]

While my state doesn't have any such restrictions as of yet, I am unsure where the ATF will land regarding braces.

Plus...I don't think that I can do this with an AR pistol:

http://www.andrewsleather.com/firepower.htm