Seeking historical info on Remington .38 lead hollowpoint load

[oldtexan]

I'm looking for information about the introduction of the Remington .38 Special +P 158gr lead hollowpoint load, currently known as RTP38S12A, but which was known for decades as R38S12. I am not considering using it now; my interest is in satisfying my curiosity about its early history. I have searched the internet and numerous publications from the 1970s, and the earliest reference to the load I could find is from a 1979 Remington catalog. But I've seen comments from folks in a few places suggesting it was available prior to 1979. I have found sources indicating Winchester's version (X38SPD) was available around 1970, that Federal introduced its version (38G) around 1977, and that maybe S&W had its own version, as well, during the mid-late 1970s. If anyone can provide any specific info on when the Remington version was introduced to the LE market and to the non-LEO market, and on any specific departments using it during the 1970s, that would be very helpful. I've written to Remington seeking the info, but wanted to tap into the knowledge base here also.

[5pins]

In the 1979 catalog, it says it's new and there is no mention of it in the 1978 catalog. It's not even in the 1978 LE catalog. So, I would assume 79 was the first year.

https://cartridgecollectors.org/cont...%20Catalog.pdf

https://cartridgecollectors.org/cont...%20Catalog.pdf

https://cartridgecollectors.org/cont...ement%20PL.pdf

[03RN]

https://revolverguy.com/all-about-th...-38-special-p/

[358156hp]

That was quite the dissertation...

[Wayne Dobbs]

The Remington R38S12 was the Dallas PD issue load starting in the early 80s after the initial adoption of the Winchester load. It was also the issue load of the FBI in the 1980s and is in fact the load Ed Mireles used in his revolver to finally kill both Platt and Matix in the Miami Shootout (April 1986).

In Dallas, we had a groundbreaking guy named Allan Jones at the county crime lab (Southwest Institute of Forensic Sciences - SWIFS) who started non-mil side gelatin testing in the early 1970s. He showed DPD how solid the Winchester load was and then later how the Remington load had improved on it. The Remington version had a softer alloy, blunter nose and a wider, deeper cavity. It also had a semi-hollow base, which led to better accuracy and less leading. It was all that and more and dozens of canceled bad guys were impressed with it in the Dallas area alone. I still have some and it works very well, unless you have a hard barrier to defeat.

[Dov]

This is something I've been interested in myself, wish someone would write a book detailing more of the early history of effective handgun rounds. Though link https://revolverguy.com/all-about-th...-38-special-p/ from above provides good details on the 38 LHP.

Good book that lightly touches on this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581605714 though the prices for that book now are just crazy.

Though wondering where Federal's 38 LHP fits in the timeline?

[oldtexan]

This is something I've been interested in myself, wish someone would write a book detailing more of the early history of effective handgun rounds. Though link https://revolverguy.com/all-about-th...-38-special-p/ from above provides good details on the 38 LHP.

Good book that lightly touches on this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581605714 though the prices for that book now are just crazy.

Though wondering where Federal's 38 LHP fits in the timeline?

Dov, re the Federal version of the LHP, it does not appear in the 1976 Federal catalog. Test data on it appears on pg 64 of the Jan/Feb 1978 issue of American Handgunner in a piece by Evan Marshall, so my guess would be that it became available in late 1976 or in 1977.

[oldtexan]

Thank you all for your very informative responses to my query.

[Dov]

Dov, re the Federal version of the LHP, it does not appear in the 1976 Federal catalog. Test data on it appears on pg 64 of the Jan/Feb 1978 issue of American Handgunner in a piece by Evan Marshall, so my guess would be that it became available in late 1976 or in 1977.

Thanks

[Outpost75]

My experience with the Federal 38G was that it was optimized for 4-inch barrels and did not expand from snubs. It also tended to lead more and was less accurate than the Winchester X38SPD or Remingto R38S12. Later production was better once they figured out the alloy, bullet lube and cavity geometry.