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Thread: Am I just Herding Cats? …Technique & Accuracy Gremlins!

  1. #21
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    I'm surprised that shooting from a rest is producing such groups. I think that someone else should check sight/plates for looseness. Too, have a another person shoot from a rest to provide more information. If you told us the brand and model of pistol and same for the sight, I missed this. What are these details.

  2. #22
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    I'm surprised that shooting from a rest is producing such groups. I think that someone else should check sight/plates for looseness. Too, have a another person shoot from a rest to provide more information. If you told us the brand and model of pistol and same for the sight, I missed this. What are these details.
    @willie, did you post this in the right thread? Or are you making reference to one of “my” other threads that included images of some of my shot groups from a benched pistol?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    @willie, did you post this in the right thread? Or are you making reference to one of “my” other threads that included images of some of my shot groups from a benched pistol?
    No. Read your 1st post in this thread. You referred to groups fired from a rest.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    No. Read your 1st post in this thread. You referred to groups fired from a rest.
    Oh right,.. forgot I wrote that. 🤣 Ok,.. so to answer your question, my RD plates are tight, been triple checked no slop. The rests I was using on most trips were the range’s and they were all pretty beat up & sloppy. I just recently bought my own cheap little pladtic rest. It’s not a high quality ransom rest, but it’s a LOT more stable than what I have been using.

    Ultimately however,.. between my eyesight, the sloppy bench rests and my newbishness? Pretty sure it explains my pi** poor performance. 🤣

    I was probably engaging in a tiny bit of hyperbole also. With most of my pistols, I can hit the silhouette @25. But my accuracy is random and even benched I get some WIDE assed groups and more than a few wild, off the black shots. (Thus the TL;DR version of this being,.. “I Suck!”) 🤣

    As for what it is Im shooting? I am shooting a G19.5 & G48. Both /w irons. The RDS is on my Walther PDP. (…which should be capable of 2” groups @25 yds with any other competent shooter!) 😭. And finally, the weapon I shoot the worst, but carry most often,…. my Springfield Armory Hellcat /w aftermarket Speed sights! (Original, Not the Pro or MOS version.)

    I did manage better, more consistent groups my last session with my new pistol rest than on past visits. So there’s that.

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    Last edited by Chomps; 12-09-2022 at 06:48 PM.

  5. #25
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    @willie, As an example of what happens to my benched groups as distance increases. (And these are with the “good” rest!) 🤣

    Hellcat - All Federal 147 HST:

    5 Rounds @5 yds
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    …3 @15 yds
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    …2 Rounds @25
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    Im sure its me doing/not doing something somehow. The 5yd groups with the new rest & Hellcat confirmed that. The pistol is obviously accurate and The Speed Sights are precise if the shooter is.

  6. #26
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
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    @Chomps this is something I was discussing with @G19Fan

    The contrast of the target matters.

    Picking black target with black iron sights is like trying to hit a red spotlight with a red dot sight…

    Try it again with a plain white sheet of copy paper with a 1” black paster.

    Line up the tops of the iron horizontally just under the paster.
    Currently I’m still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  7. #27
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    Consider selecting one handgun to master. Then branch out to the others. It seems as if you are practicing with too many different pistols. Another point is that white dot sights don't lend themselves to precise shooting, especially for older eyes. Can you afford to put a set of plain black sights on the G19 and practice with it? We have a technique thread mentioning grip methods. Perhaps someone can link it for you. I think @blues said he used this method. Hopefully it can be pulled up so I won't muddle through it and be unclear.

    When I taught shooting, I stressed short practice sessions to limit fatigue. Also, I insisted that the shooter not look at the placement of individual shots while firing a string. I limited strings to 5 shots. I had good luck using a Ruger Standard .22 Auto to teach sighting and trigger control. I taught area aiming where the trigger is pulled as long as the sights hover within an area. I insisted that shooters not pray over the sights by taking too long to shoot. Also, I emphasized that it's ok to miss the aiming point because misses give us information.

    I never accepted payment but told students if they refused not to follow directions, I would cease teaching them.

  8. #28
    I agree w/ willie. Black tape can black out white dots just fine for near zero $. Short sessions is a good idea. I also prefer short strings of fire. Long time ago I read something written for bullseye shooters but it definitely applies to me. These #s will be off some but explain the theory. Thinking of a time line of bringing the gun up from rest to aim at the target going for max accuracy in slow fire.
    0 to 3 or 4 seconds - gun is wobbly because it was just moving but now you are trying to stop movement,
    4-12 seconds - is your maximum steady period
    12+ - seconds wobble starts coming back as your muscles tire.
    When I am trying for max accuracy, I shoot just 4 to 5 rounds, relax a minute, shoot 5 more, set the gun down. Even w/ 17-18 rnd mags, for slow fire practice, we always load just 10. Needing to take a break to load 10 more actually helps.
    Another thing I find to be true is the gun will never stop wobbling. Accept that. Do NOT try to pull the trigger as the sights pass over your bullseye. 90% of the time that leads to a jerked trigger. Let it wobble around and pull the trigger. Your group will be the size of the wobble, but more experience will lessen the wobble and the group sizes.
    I think I said this earlier, but practice at a distance and target size that you can get results you like. Before moving to a longer distance or a smaller bullseye, try picking up your speed. 5 + years ago, when wife and I were shooting indoors, we used 3 inch dots at 30 ft fairly slow fire because we would get a talking to if we shot too fast. 3 yrs ago, after I had 3 years of idpa stuff, and we started shooting outdoors, we started using paper plates at a range of distances mostly of 10-30ft. Last spring I was getting my wife ready to try idpa w/ me. One drill was from low ready shoot 2 at a plate. I started her at 10ft. She did her 2 shots maybe 10 cycles. Then I started moving the target out in 5ft increments. That got her to realize that, when going for speed, the distance makes a huge difference. At each range trip you do want to move out to where you are not happy w/ your results, but be SURE that you shoot the last mag or 2 back at a distance/speed where you are happy w/ your hits.

  9. #29
    I'd also suggest picking one handgun to master. In my hands, if I shoot more than one gun in a range session my performance usually gets objectively worse with respect to accuracy.

    I also find those cheap (and even expensive) rests that support the front of the pistol don't really lead to great results from the bench. I chalk it up to always fighting with pushing the nose of the pistol down to get the sight picture correct, leading to inconsistencies. Now, I'll qualify my statement to say I don't shoot from the bench a lot, lately only when sighting in a new pistol. However, when I shot groups benched earlier in my shooting career to test loads, I liked to only support my wrists and not have anything touching the front of the gun. Seems to work better. Maybe give it a try just supporting your wrists on something solid.

    I've been shooting dots lately almost exclusively and going back to irons really takes much more attention and perception to minute changes in the front sight alignment at distance. The dot feels like cheating in comparison. It just takes more practice to shoot irons well at distance. Better vision also. I find a target selection really helps with horizontal and vertical alignment. I like a black inverted "T" for my eyes, or secondarily an inverted triangle with a tan/off-white background to really help with seeing what I need to see when shooting for precision at distance.

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