1911s That aren't 1911s

[fatdog]

Your premise is beyond pedantic and nobody here cares.

[awp_101]

I thought this was going to be about Llama pistols…

[JRB]

Greetings gun guys, I'm looking to see what you guys think of guns described as 1911s, but really aren't 1911s. To me a 1911 is .45 caliber with a 5" barrel that looks and functions like John Browning's original design. Nearly every gun manufacturer makes at least one model. I regularly see 9mms advertised as 1911s. they look similar to a "real" 1911 and have the same features and controls, but I don't think such guns should be called 1911s. I can accept the description 9mm styled after the 1911, or maybe 9mm of 1911 design, or 9mm designed after the 1911.

I own a Colt/ Walther .22 auto designed much like a 1911. The gun is cool as ever, but it's certainly not a 1911. The stamp on its slide says: "Colt's Government Model Cal. .22 Long Rifle". This gun should never be called a 1911. It is a .22 that looks and functions much like a 1911. It does have a 5" barrel.

We would never call a four cylinder kit car that looks like a Ferrari a Ferrari! Why would we call a gun a 1911 when it isn't?

Do you guys relate to my thinking on this?

I don't yet own a "real" 1911, but it's certainly on my list of guns to own!

If it's single action only with a grip safety, a positive thumb safety, a barrel with locking lugs and a swinging link, and it also happens to have a pretty good trigger and that oh so sweet grip angle, it's a 1911.

Everything else is pointlessly fussing over pedantic minutiae on a ~117 year old handgun design. The kind of thinking you're espousing here is just begging for further slippery-slope appeal-to-purity fallacies.
Next it's only Colt made 1911's are 'true' 1911's. Then Colt Series 70's, then pre WW2 Colt-made 1911's. Then only Pre WW2 Colt-made 1911's that are genuine US military used in original US military configuration and parts down to the springs. Then only Pre-WWI, etc etc ad nauseam.

Sorry to say, a 1955 Colt Gov't in .38 Super is a 1911, and a damn sweet one at that. So is a Dan Wesson Specialist in 10mm. If it troubles you to call those pistols 1911's, well, I wish I had so few problems in my life that I could invent new ones that were as nonsensical as that. I hope you enjoy and appreciate such an opportunity.


BTW, there are 4cyl Ferraris https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/735-s
Given the current world we can certainly expect modern 4cyl Ferraris in the future.

[spinmove_]

Do you guys relate to my thinking on this?

No.

I appreciate where you’re coming from, but it’s too much. It’s like saying a Glock 19 isn’t a Glock because the original was a Glock 17 and a Glock 19 is “just a compact Glock that also shoots 9mm”. It’s like saying something like a GMC Yukon isn’t a “Truck” because it has a built-in bed topper despite almost every other aspect of that being identical or damn near identical to a GMC Sierra. It’s like saying a gas operated rifle thats built and shaped like an AR-15 isn’t an AR-15 because it’s chambered in .300BLK and has a 9” barrel when a REAL AR-15 is a 20” barrel and chambered in 5.56.

I went to a business dinner with my Dad not long ago and at this dinner his boss was presented with a “display” 1911 (Kimber Stainless II, 5” in .45Auto , specifically) in a box with custom wood grips with the company logo on them. This guy doesn’t know Beretta from CZ. We get to talking about what was presented to him and he learns that I know a thing or two about firearms. He eventually asks me what exactly was presented to him. I tell him it’s a 1911. And his reply was “so, it’s a Glock?” I said “No. It’s a 1911. A Glock is something similar, but completely different.” He said “Oh, OK.” And that was that.

My point is that most people don’t even know what a 1911 or a Glock really is. A lot “gun guys” still call magazines “clips”. The fact that you think a Colt Commander 4.25” in 9mm somehow “not really a 1911” because it doesn’t fit the original definition of what a 1911 is drifts so far into the grossly over-pedantic category that it’s going to make all but the most autistic of gun owners physically cringe.

Just accept that there’s lots of different kinds of 1911s in the world and be happy. And then maybe go buy one and shoot it a bit.

[Jim Watson]

It’s like saying a Glock 19 isn’t a Glock because the original was a Glock 17 and a Glock 19 is “just a compact Glock that also shoots 9mm”.

Glock is a brand name, not a specific model.
The analogy would be that a Colt military .45 is a 1911 while a Colt Commander 9mm is not a 1911 but it is still a Colt.

But that battle is lost and you may call a dog's tail a leg if you wish.

[RJ]

I thought this was going to be about Llama pistols…

When I bought a 1911 recently, you can bet it was a Government length in American Communist Perforator. No steenking 9mm for me, that’s for sure.

OP - Kidding, it’s all good. As the guys said much better than me, a 1911 encompasses the mechanics of the JMB design, not necessarily the caliber length etc.

[HeavyDuty]

Swinging link = 1911. In my book, anyways.

[Danko]

I regret posting my topic of the definition of a 1911. The world is changing. one single term no longer has a singular definition. A 1911 can now be any size in any caliber. with any capacity, action and features. One is still left to ask, what is a 1911 pistol?

[TGS]

Christ on a cracker.....

[Robinson]

Let's not overthink this. "1911" was never the name of any particular model of pistol. "1911" comes from the military designation upon the pistol's adoption by the U.S. military. Even Colt has never had a model named "1911" in their product catalog. They use other names like "Government Model", "Commander", "Competition Pistol", etc...

So "1911" has always been used as a reference to pistols that follow the basic specification. Its common use to cover a widening category occurred naturally. The question "What is a 1911?" can be debated forever because it is not an official product name of any kind apart from the military designation.