1911s That aren't 1911s

[UNM1136]

Oops, doubletap.

pat

[UNM1136]

@JRB, @LittleLebowski and others have hit the nail on the head.

Maybe "1911 Style Pistol" is the correct nomenclature. I dunno...

What I do know in reference to .mil designations and MILitary SPECification stupidity is that the military deginates a specific inventory item with an alphanumeric reference number. As far as MILSPEC goes, the .mil assigns specs to aglets, trailers, tires, and everything else it buys. Due to marketing/free market principles/laws you can advertise, say an AR15 , or a 1911 as MILSPEC if it has A part that meets A MILSPEC...The important thing is knowing WHICH MILSPEC is involved...

I don't see this ending well, and wish everyone the best as I bow out...

pat

[45dotACP]

So uh...are we not gonna talk about the difference between 1911s and 1911A1's?

After all...you all must absolutely use the correct nomenclature and therefore nearly no firearm produced by Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Alchemy, Rock Island is in fact a "1911" because they have the relief cut.

So there you have it.

None of these guns are 1911s at all.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[SiriusBlunder]

[Robinson]

So uh...are we not gonna talk about the difference between 1911s and 1911A1's?

After all...you all must absolutely use the correct nomenclature and therefore nearly no firearm produced by Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Alchemy, Rock Island is in fact a "1911" because they have the relief cut.

So there you have it.

None of these guns are 1911s at all.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

Alchemy's frames don't have the relief cut. Get it right man!

[Hambo]

Maybe "1911 Style Pistol" is the correct nomenclature. I dunno...

I'm so confused now, I'm just going to go with this:

[Danko]

Absolutely! Any given term doesn't have one or two meanings. Most auto pistols will accept ammo clips, magazines or newspapers.

[Tamara]

To be pedantic, it's only a 1911 if it's from the Connecticut region. Otherwise, it's just:

Attachment 98133

:-P

I legit LOL'ed at that. That's funny.

As to the original topic of the post, because why not throw my two cents in while everyone else is, I'd say that while "M1911" and "M1911A1" are pretty specific designations for a distinct firearm, the terms "1911" or the more pedantically correct "1911-pattern pistol" would cover pistols that are derivative of the original Government Model.

I generally keep it to ones that largely use the same basic frame/slide although they may be shorter or longer, in a different chambering, or made of a different material. I'd refer to a Para-Ordnance LDA or Kimber Ultra Carry as a "1911-pattern pistol", but not a Colt Mustang or a Ballester-Molina.

[Lost River]

Wasn't the original design by Browning not in .45ACP?

Colt made the gun to Browning's patent specifications.

*Yes, but Browning and Colt had kept revising and upgrading the design to suit the Army. The gun was already being issued by the time the last patent was issued in 1913.

OP, would it surprise you to know FN made their own version of the 1911?

*Right, the Grand Browning.

The FN chambering was again a mid-caliber (9.65x23mm per the internet, or roughly .38 cal - not .355) cartridge if I remember right.

*And don't forget the 9.8mm Colt ca 1912. Is 9.8 Colt the same as 9.65 FN or just similar?

Also, the original chamberings of the 1911 and all of it's prototypes would include 38 ACP, 45ACP, and .455 Webley Auto. At least those were the ones that it was chambered it (and it's prototypes) while Browning was alive. I'm sure 38 Super was in the works as well before he passed.

*As I understand it, the Super .38 Colt pistol was introduced for .38 Auto because they realized that the 1902/1903 "parallel ruler" guns were obsolete compared to the 1911 design.
The ammo companies did not soup up the loads to what we now know as .38 Super +P for a couple of years.


ETA: While the first Colt Browning pistols were in .38 Rimless Smokeless aka .38 Auto aka .38 ACP, the guns are very distant ancestors of the 1911, the operating system is different, there are no parts in common.

Colt prototyped a .40 Auto but gave up on it when it was obvious the Old Indian Fighters were not going to accept anything but a .45.

This is that precursor to the 1911.

A Colt 1902 Military.

Chambered in .38 ACP.

This one has been in the family for many generations. Perhaps bought new, I don't know.





I really need to take the time and get some better pics of it done.

[Lost River]

Don't forget the other 1911s that are not 1911s...




Winchester also made a Model 1911 shotgun.

Savage made a .22 Short, Model 1911.....