Thanks for the mention fellas. Just tryin to live that J frame lifestyle here in sweaty Louisiana. CYA Mike
Thanks for the mention fellas. Just tryin to live that J frame lifestyle here in sweaty Louisiana. CYA Mike
The Thin Blue Line is TOO Thin........Thug Life Must End
Yep. They changed the grip frame to standard K width with the dash 4. Prior revisions have a slightly thinner grip frame and won't properly fit regular K frame grips. I've heard of folks modifying standard grips to fit but have never seen any. Haven't seen a dash 4 in years either. With a BK grip adaptor the Round Butt works for me. Really no difference in feel to a standard K grip for comparison sake. The shaved grip frame is just enough to screw up standard grip fit but not really enough to feel a significant difference.Originally Posted by jh9
no one sees what's written on the spine of his own autobiography.
This. I found that a J-frame Tyler T worked great on a 12-3.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Another possibility would be Smiffs 649 357 gun. Single and double action, shrouded hammer , and they're so ugly they're beautiful. I suggest the 357 version because the barrels slightly longer than the 38s. Sample auction linked, Holy smoke, are they really this expensive now?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/950891707
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem
I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude
-Thomas Jefferson
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
Realized for weight comparisons, other than the Model 12, I've never actually put any of the .38 snub's on a scale. Couldn't find my digital balance in the garage, so going off a kitchen scale (and as much for my own interest as anything):
Model 38 Bodyguard
18.1 ounces
[Airweight J frame, 38 Special, 1 7/8", round butt, Taurus boot grip, 5 x 147 grain wadcutters]
Model 12-1
21.8 ounces
[Airweight K frame, .38 Special, 2", round butt, BK grip adaptor, 6 x 147 grain wadcutters]
Model 60-1
24.1 ounces
[Steel J frame, .38 Special, 1 7/8", round butt, Taurus boot grip, 5 x 147 grain wadcutters]
Model 640-1
25.8 ounces
[Steel J Magnum frame, .357 Magnum, 2 1/8", round butt, Taurus boot grip, 5 x 147 grain wadcutters]
no one sees what's written on the spine of his own autobiography.
Great post.
How do you compare shooting the 640-1 to the 12?
Thanks.
Different.
I’m going to hedge a bit here. I’ve had a love-hate relationship with the 640. It likely would have gone to trade long since but it’s the first firearm my wife and I bought as a couple. Even though she is pretty meh on revolvers she is sentimental about this one. I also haven’t shot the 640 since before COVID. With lockdowns and ammo shortages I’ve focused more on EDC’s and .22’s. My recollections may be tinged. I think Lester Polfus regularly carries his 640 and for instance might be a better reference for them.
Grips
The 12 has the classic 3-finger K grip. A little cramped but a 3-finger grip. Filled out with a grip adaptor it does a lot for control and recoil mitigation.
The 640 has a 2-finger grip. Even with the added weight the stub grip leads to more muzzle flip, etc. All J’s are sensitive to grip combo but the 640 seems especially so. With the stock splinter grips the 640 is almost useless at range (though these are the best for concealment). That said the shooting characteristics change a lot with different grip designs. The Taurus boots covering the back strap and adding mild palm swells do a lot for the 640. Groups tighten up etc. Bearing in mind I have large hands and the J’s really aren’t a good fit for them without stepping up to full size grips which kind of defeats the purpose of a J snub.
Triggers and Pull
The 12 has the classic K frame, flat spring going for it. This is the smooth trigger pull that made S&W’s reputation.
The 640 is also very smooth in the pull. It was not so much out of the box but a lot of dry and live fire have made about the cleanest, non-custom trigger I’ve felt in a J. It cleaned up nice. The trigger itself is the smooth face, wide trigger. It has a tendency to pinch when pulling the trigger. I’d call this another hand size thing but it does it to my wife too and she has small hands.
Sights
The 12-1 has the itsy-bitsy 1/10” skinny sights. It indexes well but the sights can be hard to acquire at speed if your index is off. The 12-2 (and later) have the 1/8” sights and pick up well (at least with orange nail polish applied!). I also had a surprise measuring the sight radius this morning. The 12’s are almost ½” shorter than the 640 though I would have guessed them as dead even.
The 640 also has the 1/8” sights but with an oddly shallow presentation. 640’s are also notorious for shooting low: substantially low with some loads but also low with pretty much everything. This one is no different. No one seems to know what load they zero’d for (if any). It almost feels like the 640 wants something more in the 170 grain to 180 grain range. For what it’s worth Revolver Guy has a decent blog entry on filing down the front sight to raise the point of impact.
Recoil
This is one where memories may be tinged. Free recoil of the 640 has to be lower with a ¼ pound more weight. My memory of perceived recoil says the 12 is less. Assuming I recall correctly then it has to come down to the larger grip better controlling muzzle flip and also spreading the recoil a tiny bit more across the palm.
Accuracy
The 640 with Taurus boot grip is OK-ish at reasonable ranges. The 12 is just better. Oddly the Model 38 Bodyguard may be the most accurate of my .38 snubs. I would trust the Model 38 or the Model 12 for a static 25 yard shot (but especially the Bodyguard). I wouldn’t trust the 640 for that. Then again it’s a snub and what is really a reasonable engagement distance for that package?
Anyways this has been a bit of a long ramble. Hope it helped!
no one sees what's written on the spine of his own autobiography.
I agree that it isn't just the weight, but the grip size as well that factor into the J-frame equation. The original "Centennial" grips were concealable, but I never got on with them; I still hold older 640s in high regard, but those old skinny wood grips were not part of why I feel this way. Of all the grips I tried, I did like the Uncle Mike's boot grips best for ease of pocket carry, but their combat grips were much the better shooters. Were I to return to the J-frame today, I'd probably put a Hogue monogrip on and try to live with it.
But the J-frame isn't alone in this regard...
What grip a person uses on a Ruger SP101 makes a difference as well. My DAO SP101 snubby with the three-finger Crimson Trace grips weighs weighs 25.1 ounces empty (and probably never over 27.5 ounces loaded with any .38 Specials I use in it). I like the relatively large grips like the CTCs or Hogues on SP101s because small boot-type grips tend to be marginally controllable for me and the factory rubber grip has all the ergonomics of a short length of square-section wood molding with the edges slightly relieved.
So additional weight in and of itself will not always lessen the perceived recoil.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
Great thread and great advise. Unloaded approbation weights. More weight rubber grips less felt recoil.
Re Half Moon agree Model 12 w BKgrp adapter 17 ounce
OLD COLT DETECTIVE 21 once thicker yet shorter grip is very nice
I really want a 3" k6s 27-28 ounce and king cobra 28 ounce but pricy
The unknown RIA Imported 30 ounce 6shot .357 from alpha proj AL 3.0 and 3.1
Is something different w no recoil even w hot 158 magnums rubber grips soak it up
Easiest is get a 3" Taurus 856 Defender 25 ounce or nicer Executive and a 942 .22lr for cheap fun practice
Hope that helps.
A 3" sp101 is also beautiful and tank like but only 5 shots 27 ounce.
Hope this helps.
Lionquest Fitness and Hrfunk and Gun Sam helped me learn about Revos
Last edited by DanTheWolfman; 12-08-2022 at 02:24 PM.
Gun sam used to have interesting videos when he used water but please don't have hime "teach" you about revolvers.
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