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Thread: Keep on Rollin': HK P9S & CZ-52

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    Jeff Cooper's comment on the P9S - all that plastic and stamped sheet metal, then they put the money they saved back into an elaborate barrel extension and bolt.

    I looked up a couple of the other exotic roller actions, the Delta Top Gun and the Geiger.
    I've never heard of the Delta Top Gun! I get excited when I learn that semi-auto pistols I've never heard of still exist. LifeSizePotato has a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spYbOks31OU He's kinda my gun hipster muse.

    Also... yes. I forgot about the Korriphila guns. Ian has a cool video explaining those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvEy7TWyOI Basically, it seems like a roller-delay system, but it uses one big roller on the top of the bolt to achieve basically the same thing the P9S does.

    Also, the Korth PRS uses a system that looks almost identical to the P9S system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02ZdYUPtp7g&t=20s
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  2. #22
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    I wonder if it would be possible to convert the CZ52 to .38 Super.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  3. #23
    I picked up a CZ-52 back when I changed my FFL-03 from NJ to ME. Had a Yugo Tokarev back then with the 1911 safety… but eventually swapped it out with a Chinese that I swapped the trigger out.

    I sold a Ruger .44 carbine, which I also got a 9mm barrel for the CZ. They are out there, but not as available as they are made out to be.

    I upgraded the firing pin, extractor, and put in harden rollers for both barrels. The 9mm barrel I had plated to make it different from the 7.62mm barrel.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    I wonder if it would be possible to convert the CZ52 to .38 Super.
    Like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read on the internet.
    There used to be a wild and crazy experimenter on some of the gun boards aka "Clark".
    He warned of rechambering the CZ52 to a hot loaded 9mm because the step-down of the barrel forming a shoulder for the recoil spring falls over the neck of the .30 chamber. Therefore it would be a thin spot and square corner over the neck or mouth of a 9mm Whatever. Obviously enough safety margin for the 9mm P conversions, ought to hold a Super if the breech face will accept the semi-rim.
    He thought the Tokarev was actually stronger, roller action notwithstanding.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  5. #25
    Couple incorrect things here/

    First off, the P9S is not a locked breech gun. It’s a roller delayed blowback. The CZ52 is completely different design, which actually is a locked breech.

    Second, the P9S shares its design with the Korriphila HSP, Korth PRS, and Geiger GRP. All are roller delayed blowbacks.

    The Delta Top Gun also uses the CZ’s design, of a roller locked breech.

    I own them all.

  6. #26
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
    Couple incorrect things here/

    First off, the P9S is not a locked breech gun. It’s a roller delayed blowback. The CZ52 is completely different design, which actually is a locked breech.

    Second, the P9S shares its design with the Korriphila HSP, Korth PRS, and Geiger GRP. All are roller delayed blowbacks.

    The Delta Top Gun also uses the CZ’s design, of a roller locked breech.

    I own them all.
    We demand photos!
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    Through the sheer grace of coincidence, I managed to acquire the only two roller-locking handguns in existence (I think?), within the span of about 2 weeks. I saw the CZ-52 at a pawn shop for $250. I saw the HK P9S on Armslist for... more than that.

    Attachment 97599

    So... Merry Christmas me.

    To be clear, the CZ-52 is roller locked and the HK P9S is roller delayed. In most respects, they're nothing alike. Other than fact they both have rollers and they're both neat. And that gives me an excuse to make a thread on PF about both of them.

    HK P9S

    Damn. This thing can shoot. I've heard it described as a "one-hole gun." I see why.

    Attachment 97601

    The accuracy feels very direct. Very intuitive. Like there's less of a "proxy" between your point of aim and your point of impact. And I suppose that makes sense--the P9S uses a fixed barrel. But unlike a straight blowback gun, the P9S has a telescoping bolt/breech face with little rollers on it... which lock into little nooks on a trunnion that extends back from the rear-end of the barrel. So, the rollers slow down the cycle and that helps keeps the pressure contained... while also making every shot feel silky smooth. You can see the little half-moon "nooks" there in the center of all that metallic complexity--that's where the rollers live, when in battery.

    Attachment 97604

    The single-action trigger is also fantastic. Very light. Very crisp. Even shooting fairly fast, I was holding tight patterns on the target. I put 150 rounds through it. 100% reliable. 100% accurate AF and fun to shoot.

    Attachment 97600

    Interestingly, some digging on HKPro revealed that this was one of the Malaysian police imports that (I guess) came in through Centerfire Systems in the last few years. But it's been completely overhauled. Refinished. Buffer replaced. Small parts/springs replaced. New trigger guard. There's no serial number on the barrel or the slide. They may not even be original to the gun. But hey... the thing can freakin' shoot. So who cares.

    CZ-52

    This poor thing was a sight for sore eyes. Rust. Holster wear. Barely any of its original 1950s phosphate finish left. But I've always thought the lines and the proportions of the CZ-52 were gorgeous. And for the price... what the hell.

    Attachment 97602

    I cleaned it up and replaced the recoil spring before shooting. I put 100 rounds through it. Mag dumped as fast as I could pull the trigger. It fired, fed, extracted and locked back every time. And the thing is... so much fun to shoot. You get a big blast from the 7.62x25 round. But hardly any recoil. In a way, it's the exact opposite of the P9S--you feel very insulated from the shot. And the recoil impulse. So you just want to keep blasting away... and, in my case, hit absolutely nothing.

    Attachment 97603

    Unlike the P9s, the CZ-52 is a locked-breech pistol. In a way, the rollers kinda perform the same roll (ha!) as the locking block in a Beretta 92. In battery, they lock into recesses in the slide, then they get pushed out of those recesses (inward) to unlock the slide from the barrel. It feels somewhat like a Beretta 92, I guess? You get a very relaxed, very "attenuated" recoil impulse.

    Attachment 97605

    I'd get some decent accuracy for a few shots with the thing... then I'd start getting flyers. The bore has some light pitting here and there, but the rifling is still clear and sharp. I think it can probably shoot better than I was shooting it. Plus, after a certain point, I just started blasting to see if the thing could handle rapid fire. It did.

    Anyway... fun times. Figured some of you guys might enjoy these blasts from the past. I think both guns are fascinating from an engineering standpoint. In fact, you might say... I like how they roll.

    Sorry
    Only the CZ is a roller locked breech design. Your P9S is a roller delayed blowback (which Germans refer to as a “roller lock”). Two completely different designs.

    …and they aren’t the only one of either design. See my post above

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
    Couple incorrect things here/

    First off, the P9S is not a locked breech gun. It’s a roller delayed blowback. The CZ52 is completely different design, which actually is a locked breech.

    Second, the P9S shares its design with the Korriphila HSP, Korth PRS, and Geiger GRP. All are roller delayed blowbacks.

    The Delta Top Gun also uses the CZ’s design, of a roller locked breech.

    I own them all.
    Thanks for the clarification. Though I did note the distinction between roller locked and roller delayed in my initial post. About halfway through the thread, we also went into greater depth on the unique mechanics of both.

    Regardless...

    I second Joe in PNG. Photos! No doubt, you've got a lot of... "high rollers" in your collection

    I figure we can't have too many roll puns in a thread about roller actions...
    For astute purveyors of pew: hipstertactical.com

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    We demand photos!
    Will do

    I’ll try to get some posted tomorrow

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Though I did note the distinction between roller locked and roller delayed in my initial post. About halfway through the thread, we also went into greater depth on the unique mechanics of both.

    Regardless...

    I second Joe in PNG. Photos! No doubt, you've got a lot of... "high rollers" in your collection

    I figure we can't have too many roll puns in a thread about roller actions...
    For sure. I’ll get them posted tomorrow.

    Congrats on your additions.

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