Questions on Thoughts of Paul Howe

[okie john]

I’ll be the countervailing opinion (aside from BBI) and just say this: If you’re Paul Howe, you can run whatever you want, so long as it’s not a friggin 1851 Navy cap n ball wheelie. I’m sure that MoFo can make his single stack M&P work.

But whatever: I’m a wheelie guy, so grain of salt on the “multiple attackers problem.”

This, even if he DID have a blackpowder Colt.


Okie John

[Tamara]

I just don't get actively seeking out a rimfire for carry when proven .38s exist, there's no physical limitation, etc. It also makes me curious why this advocacy seems to only exist in the revolver realm.

For me it's almost entirely due to the weight of the loaded gun, combined with it still being shootable.

Sure, a titanium cylinder 342PD is just as light...or roughly just as light...as a 43C or 351PD, but I wouldn't shoot fifty rounds of .38 in one session through a 342 with your hand holding the gun and someone else pulling the trigger. They are literally just unpleasant to shoot, even with Federal GMM wadcutters.

Awake and dressed and shoes on, outside of the house, carrying in a pocket holster? Yeah, I carry an Airweight .32 Mag there. But if I'm just lounging around the house, a gun light enough to not pull my sweatpants down is important to me.

(And I will name one equivalent in the auto realm: I will take a .22 LCP over the .380 version any day.)

[Joe S]

EDITED TO ADD: This has been front of mind for me because I've been noodling over a column on the realities of CCW in ban vs. non-ban states and how that should be influencing Conventional Wisdom in advice on the gunternet.

This is sorely needed and would be much appreciated.

[Shades]

The pocket revolver is a different creature than a normal carry gun.

Revolvers have very limited capacity (which matters in handgun calibers) and tend to be a pain in the ass to deal with because they're fundamentally 19th century technology. Lots can go wrong with them and frequently does go wrong with them. That's why I'd never willingly choose to carry my 4" 586 over my M&P 9 as a primary carry gun.

But there are times when I will also have my 638 in the pocket and situations where that gun would end up being the first gun I pull.

The pocket revolver allows you to establish a grip on the revolver without looking like you're establishing the grip on a handgun. You can look perfectly casual while you have a death grip on a J frame and in that position you can deal with an unknown contact, maneuver, and if the time comes where the ruse is dropped and his weapon comes out you can put two rounds into the dude in less than a second. One minute he thinks he's getting paid, and literally 9 tenths of a second later he's got two bullet holes in him at a speed he's unable to deal with. Or maybe he's on the ground and out of the fight because your first or second shot went right through the bridge of his nose.

I've put that maneuver on a timer plenty of times and you're looking at about a .5-.6 to a chest hit and a .6-.75 head shot from the pocket. That's the only sub-second draw you're going to see in the real world and it's happening because you can accomplish the most difficult part of the draw in the early stages of the encounter.

In that specific circumstance...the encroaching unknown contact with limited opportunities for maneuver and/or escape...the pocket revolver would be my first choice of a weapon.

Semi-autos in that size range have dogshit reliability, partially because they're just too small to have much margin for error in reliable function and partially because they depend on a perfect grip on the gun to function, which almost nobody pulling one has when it's gametime. (In general we spend far too little time emphasizing the importance of grip in the holster to assure reliable function and the ability to hit out of the holster)

The pocket revolver is a significant force multiplier in that particular narrow range of application where it just so happens a whole lot of street crime actually occurs. So you could well carry just a J frame in .38 or .22 in the pocket and with the right situational awareness become the nastiest surprise that bad guy has ever encountered.

Downsides are you aren't pulling that pocket revolver in .5 of a second when seated or if you have to go for it flat-footed. If you are behind the curve a gun carried at the waistline with a grip you can get to reliably is going to be significantly better. Often you'll see someone packing two snubs. One with pocket-appriopriate stocks in the pocket and another with stocks that allow a full grip on the gun carried at the waist.

Most violence in the United States occurs at conversational distances. Most is not all. But it is still most.

If your likely threat is typical street crime with one or two bad guys, that surprise pocket revolver punches well above its weight.

That's why you see so many t-rex types who have J frames and good pocket holsters like the Mika.

I own a 317 but I generally prefer my 638 loaded with wadcutters. Fewer rounds, but they penetrate reliably.

This is even more the case when the weather is cold, as the J frame can be carried in an outer coat or vest pocket and putting your hands in your pockets for warmth is such a natural thing to do. OTOH, the extra layers folks wear in cold weather can complicate drawing from the waist, whether AIWB or 3-4 o'clock. Granted, a very specific use case, but one encountered frequently about now. Even with the P365XL carried AIWB, the J will likely be what I have my hand wrapped around in a coat pocket when out and about this time of year.

[Paul Blackburn]

At extreme close distances the pocket revolver doesn't even have to be drawn. You can shoot right through the pocket and get a couple rounds on a bad guy.

[joshs]

It's as ludicrous a "get out the vote" scare tactic as telling me that the GOP wants to take away my right to vote because I'm a woman.

In fairness to the people writing that GOTV ad copy (including me), a magazine capacity ban did actually pass the House and we have a President who would very much so like to sign it. I wish I had your confidence that there is no scenario where they can get to 60 in the Senate.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Moral panic will do it, if the horror show hits the progun Senators personally. Now, after his shooting Steve Scalise seemed to keep the faith but you can't trust all will be that stalwart.

I do agree it's a low probability but extremes happen. Sen. Murphy just said he doesn't have the votes now. However, blue states with urban controlled legislatures will probably pass such.

Of course, one day Scotus will save us, so it is said in the hopes of the Clarence Fan Club.

[JHC]

At extreme close distances the pocket revolver doesn't even have to be drawn. You can shoot right through the pocket and get a couple rounds on a bad guy.

I always wondered how well that works with the snub in a pocket holster which the cognoscenti have been saying is a requirement for pocket carry for decades. A draw and shoot staying inside the pocket sounds like a lot of chaos.

[jandbj]

I always wondered how well that works with the snub in a pocket holster which the cognoscenti have been saying is a requirement for pocket carry for decades. A draw and shoot staying inside the pocket sounds like a lot of chaos.

Practiced this with coat pocket carry years back at a snubby class with Michael deBethencourt. No holster for the coat pocket carry. You may have a smoldering pocket when you’re done but it worked great for what it is and is the way a lot of old cops through the 80’s carried their chilly weather snubs well into the 90’s. Old MA trooper I knew liked the fact that he could look relaxed as could be with a hand in his pocket roadside while already being indexed on the driver during car stops.

[JHC]

Practiced this with coat pocket carry years back at a snubby class with Michael deBethencourt. No holster for the coat pocket carry. You may have a smoldering pocket when you’re done but it worked great for what it is and is the way a lot of old cops through the 80’s carried their chilly weather snubs well into the 90’s. Old MA trooper I knew liked the fact that he could look relaxed as could be with a hand in his pocket roadside while already being indexed on the driver during car stops.

I figured as much. But then I'm Mex carrying a 1911 around the house today so I'm bad that way.