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Thread: POI Shift with Occluded Optic

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    POI Shift with Occluded Optic

    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    There was actually a video on Instagram that Mike Pannone posted a little while back where he was teaching an LE optics class. He was discussing occluded optic shooting and then demonstrated it. I was impressed because he doesnít have binocular vision due to the loss of his right eye.

    POI shifts while shooting occluded is also the big clue Iíve seen that someone might not have binocular vision even if they have two eyes and they might not know they have a vision issue.
    Not to derail the thread, but I get a POI shift with an occluded pistol optic. I'm right handed and right-eye dominant, and bullet impact is significantly left when my optic is occluded. Any idea why this happens for some shooters?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but I get a POI shift with an occluded pistol optic. I'm right handed and right-eye dominant, and bullet impact is significantly left when my optic is occluded. Any idea why this happens for some shooters?
    Has an eye doctor ever told you that you might now have binocular vision? Like your right eye sees things and your left eye sees things, but your brain doesnít merge the two images together? At closer ranges like 3-5y, is the distance between your POA and POI about the same as the distance between your eyes?
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but I get a POI shift with an occluded pistol optic. I'm right handed and right-eye dominant, and bullet impact is significantly left when my optic is occluded. Any idea why this happens for some shooters?
    I also experience this intermittently, especially if tired. I had a retina tear nearly ten years ago in my right dominant eye, still have significant floaters, and in some lower light conditions, my left eye fights for dominance.

    Back to the SRO, a squad mate who is a lead red dot trainer for a major department, had his SRO occluded on the first stage. I meant to ask him, but didn't get the chance, how the department would feel about an occluded SRO on duty. The false SRO dot is such a problem, because rather than being splatter that you know is a problem, it is a single deceptive dot.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but I get a POI shift with an occluded pistol optic. I'm right handed and right-eye dominant, and bullet impact is significantly left when my optic is occluded. Any idea why this happens for some shooters?
    I was playing around with a PVS-14 night vision tube on my left eye and aiming with a visible dot on my right eye. Same problem. It's a convergence issue, and can cause big deviations in POI. See this article by Gabe White: http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/vision/
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    Has an eye doctor ever told you that you might now have binocular vision? Like your right eye sees things and your left eye sees things, but your brain doesnít merge the two images together? At closer ranges like 3-5y, is the distance between your POA and POI about the same as the distance between your eyes?
    I've never had an eye doctor tell me that I have binocular vision. But my eyes are kind of wonky, so I could well have it. My POI shift is 1.5" left at 7 yard, which is near to the distance between my eyes. Interestingly, the POI is also about 1" low with the optic occluded.

    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I also experience this intermittently, especially if tired. I had a retina tear nearly ten years ago in my right dominant eye, still have significant floaters, and in some lower light conditions, my left eye fights for dominance.

    Back to the SRO, a squad mate who is a lead red dot trainer for a major department, had his SRO occluded on the first stage. I meant to ask him, but didn't get the chance, how the department would feel about an occluded SRO on duty. The false SRO dot is such a problem, because rather than being splatter that you know is a problem, it is a single deceptive dot.
    I have a torn vitreous in my left eye, and tons of floaters. And both eyes have had cataract surgery due to early-onset cataracts. BTW - thanks for your ongoing discussion and photos of false dots - it's valuable information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I was playing around with a PVS-14 night vision tube on my left eye and aiming with a visible dot on my right eye. Same problem. It's a convergence issue, and can cause big deviations in POI. See this article by Gabe White: http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/vision/
    I've read that article a few times over the years, while trying to figure out why Gabe is such great shooter. I'll re-read it again, within the context of occluded optic POI shift. And please feel free to break this out into a separate thread, if you think it makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    You know, that running it occluded prevents false dotÖ.
    Yep, but before I went occluded I didnít have the issue either.

  7. #7
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Yep, but before I went occluded I didnít have the issue either.
    You didnít shoot enough low sun angles.

    It wasnít an issue for me eitherÖ for years.

    But then I started doing weeknight league and setting sun fucked me up.

    In your case, it would suck to have your first experience with it in a self defense situationÖ
    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    You didnít shoot enough low sun angles.

    It wasnít an issue for me eitherÖ for years.

    But then I started doing weeknight league and setting sun fucked me up.

    In your case, it would suck to have your first experience with it in a self defense situationÖ
    I appreciate your input. I got into my circumstances and all that upstream.

    Iíd carry a SRO, if I did, it would be occluded, and Iíd be ok with that.

    I have an aimpoint P2 inbound that I was fortunate enough to get a great deal on. So I guess I wonít be killed on the street at sundown after all. Ha

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    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    I appreciate your input. I got into my circumstances and all that upstream.

    Iíd carry a SRO, if I did, it would be occluded, and Iíd be ok with that.

    I have an aimpoint P2 inbound that I was fortunate enough to get a great deal on. So I guess I wonít be killed on the street at sundown after all. Ha
    Itís okay. Iím carrying a left handed pocket snub so Iím a dead man walking anyway.
    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    I've never had an eye doctor tell me that I have binocular vision. But my eyes are kind of wonky, so I could well have it. My POI shift is 1.5" left at 7 yard, which is near to the distance between my eyes. Interestingly, the POI is also about 1" low with the optic occluded.



    I have a torn vitreous in my left eye, and tons of floaters. And both eyes have had cataract surgery due to early-onset cataracts. BTW - thanks for your ongoing discussion and photos of false dots - it's valuable information.



    I've read that article a few times over the years, while trying to figure out why Gabe is such great shooter. I'll re-read it again, within the context of occluded optic POI shift. And please feel free to break this out into a separate thread, if you think it makes sense.
    Apologies, my post should have read ďhas an eye doctor ever told said you donít have binocular vision?Ē Autocorrect.

    As others have mentioned, itís usually related to some eye issue.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

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