AIWB in IPSC Limited/Limited 10

[Mr_White]

Balance of speed and accuracy in USPSA: there may be some basic understanding to be had in that concept, but ultimately I think it’s an illusion and it’s a yoke that must be thrown off. You just need to hit with every shot very rapidly (easier said than done I know.)

Since I habitually want to shoot a USPSA stage in the high-flyingest manner I can conceive, that requires I shoot all As really fast. I think that’s a good goal to strive for. I’ve seen how my score takes a dive if I shoot more than one or two Cs per stage. I like how it appears that the highest levels of USPSA are reached only by shooting very accurately at a high rate of speed. I’m trying to avoid the common trap of pursuing a marginally good score by shooting really fast with lots of points down.

[ToddG]

...and to this day still have no idea what hanging onto a few extra rounds in a mostly empty magazine does for me.

You're so un-tactical. You don't know what it's like to run out of ammo in the middle of a big firefight (in Call of Duty).

There are certainly lots of variables and factors in walking out of gunfights unscathed, but getting a bunch of weak peripheral hits really fast has yet to be the deciding factor for success in any of the incidents I have personal knowledge of.

Agreed. The scoring zones in IDPA and IPSC are based on making the game fast and fun. The a-zones are already generous. Thinking that rapid c- and d-zone hits are worth the expenditure of ammo goes counter to the teachings of every respectable terminal ballistics expert I've ever spoken to.

[Alaskapopo]

Agree 100% with avoiding a slide lock reload. If someone were to go back in time, and see when that stupid ass rule was popularized and ultimately included in IDPA, it was around the same time the military made the same stupid knee jerk reaction decisions with magazines and reloads. I was around for the incident that caused all of the excitement, and to this day still have no idea what hanging onto a few extra rounds in a mostly empty magazine does for me.

Disagree 100% on placing speed equal to, or higher than accuracy, if we are talking about shooting a game stage for your own personal growth as a serious defensive shooter. There are certainly lots of variables and factors in walking out of gunfights unscathed, but getting a bunch of weak peripheral hits really fast has yet to be the deciding factor for success in any of the incidents I have personal knowledge of.

I need to articulate what I am saying better. I did not mean to imply speed should be placed at a greater value however I do think both should be placed at the same level and you need to strive to be accurate but also be accurate as fast as you possibly can. I see police qualificaitons giving far too much time to complete a drill where in real life you would never have that amount of time when facing down a threat. I agree a bunch of weak peripheral hits is not what you want but taking so long to get a shot off that you get hit by your attacker is also not what I want. Just my thoughts.
By the way my accuracy has always been a strength my speed is what I have had to work the hardest at.
Pat

[Odin Bravo One]

Yeah.......I don't place them at the same level either.

It's ok for us to disagree.

It certainly doesn't mean I'm right. Just means we see things differently.

[ToddG]

The "fast vs accurate" debate, at least among serious shooters, is less about philosophy and more about word choice in my experience.

Is it more important to be accurate than fast? Yes. Because if you're not accurate it doesn't matter how fast you are. Fast ineffective hits are still ineffective.

... or ...

Is it more important to be accurate than fast? No. Because if you can't make your accurate hit before the other guy makes his it doesn't matter how accurate you are. Precise shots that never get fired because you're already incapacitated (or dead) don't do you any good.

Shooting someone in the eyeball requires more precision -- and thus, all else being equal, more time -- than shooting someone in the thoracic triangle. Which one is better? The answer to that is wholly situational. The only real mistake is when someone fools himself into thinking that he'll always have the time to make that precise eyeball shot... or that he'll always have the luxury of an easy torso shot.

[JeffJ]

Balance of speed and accuracy in USPSA: there may be some basic understanding to be had in that concept, but ultimately I think it’s an illusion and it’s a yoke that must be thrown off. You just need to hit with every shot very rapidly (easier said than done I know.)

Since I habitually want to shoot a USPSA stage in the high-flyingest manner I can conceive, that requires I shoot all As really fast. I think that’s a good goal to strive for. I’ve seen how my score takes a dive if I shoot more than one or two Cs per stage. I like how it appears that the highest levels of USPSA are reached only by shooting very accurately at a high rate of speed. I’m trying to avoid the common trap of pursuing a marginally good score by shooting really fast with lots of points down.

I think the speed over accuracy thing is a common misconception about USPSA - the fact is that the guys who are winning matches are shooting 92%+ of the available points, and they're doing it really fast. Cs don't help and Ds are as good as a miss when you're shooting minor and not much better in major. It's amazing how good the GM level and M level shooters are - they're really fast and really accurate and have honed a sense of how fast they can shoot an A on any given target, because for the most part - they're shooting As. Even a make up shot is going to cost you at least .20, maybe more depending on the situation and your stage plan - too many of those and it can really cost you.

Down in C class where I am (and really working to get out of) you'll occasionally see somebody who can blaze through a course shooting a lot of AC on targets and do well in C class, but that goes away with the higher classifications.

[Alaskapopo]

Yeah.......I don't place them at the same level either.

It's ok for us to disagree.

It certainly doesn't mean I'm right. Just means we see things differently.

Yep its ok to disagree. I think Todd G's post sumed up what I was trying to get across the best.
Pat

[Mr_White]

I think the speed over accuracy thing is a common misconception about USPSA - the fact is that the guys who are winning matches are shooting 92%+ of the available points, and they're doing it really fast. Cs don't help and Ds are as good as a miss when you're shooting minor and not much better in major. It's amazing how good the GM level and M level shooters are - they're really fast and really accurate and have honed a sense of how fast they can shoot an A on any given target, because for the most part - they're shooting As. Even a make up shot is going to cost you at least .20, maybe more depending on the situation and your stage plan - too many of those and it can really cost you.

Down in C class where I am (and really working to get out of) you'll occasionally see somebody who can blaze through a course shooting a lot of AC on targets and do well in C class, but that goes away with the higher classifications.

I agree with you. The high scorers I've seen at USPSA are straight up good shooters.

[Mr_White]

It's also interesting to see how certain shooters place in USPSA vs. GSSF, when it's a person who competes in both, since GSSF is almost pure shooting to a certain accuracy standard, whereas USPSA involves that shooting ensconced within a lot of other tasks, especially movement.

[Alaskapopo]

It's also interesting to see how certain shooters place in USPSA vs. GSSF, when it's a person who competes in both, since GSSF is almost pure shooting to a certain accuracy standard, whereas USPSA involves that shooting ensconced within a lot of other tasks, especially movement.

The best shooters will win regardles of format in my experience. Case in point there is a law enforcement only match up here in Alaska once a year and I have done well at this match the last 5 years or so coming in 1st or 2nd each year but one. The guys who got me on the years I got second also go back and forth with me. This last year their was much moaning and nashing of teath by some shooters who said us USPSA guys (meaning cops that shoot USPSA for fun) had an advantage and the competition was not tactical enough. So this year they went with NRA Law Enforcement rules which is a retarded rules system which basically puts all the emphasis on accuracy (C zone hit -2 seconds D zone -4 Miss -10) Well to make a long story short I got 1st and the same top shooters placed in the top 5 like always. The guys who were bitching placed about the same as they always do. The moral of the story is if you shoot well you will do good at any shooting game.
Pat