My 5.56 BLR was lasting with no issues in practice, but I don't bang it about all that much. The gears do not instill confidence. Also, the 5 round magazine and no chance of extension (someone made a 20-rounder for Savage IIRC, using a modified M14 magazine, but it's not going to work in BLR).
I have certain hopes for Bond's upcoming lever AR. It seems better architected than Fight Lite's implementation (which uses a gear like BLR).
I actually had this conversation today.
The only two I’d be comfortable with (with factory ammo) is a Winchester 1873 in 45 Colt or 357;
or a top eject Winchester ‘94 in 30-30. If you want to make your own ammo and are up for 44-40 or 38-40, the 1873 will not disappoint and now you can consider an 1892, but not a Rossi.
The ‘73 has reliability in spades over anything Marlin and it pains me to say it because the Marlín 1894 is such a cool gun. The only drawbacks are the size and weight, and they need a little more cleaning with a straight walled cartridge as the fouling that blows around the case will eventually cause the elevator to stick. Blow it out with gunscrubber, contact cleaner, or non-clorinated brake cleaner every hundred rounds or so.
There is a little art to running a Winchester ‘94. They need to be cycled briskly, but not hard, with care to completely bump the lever all the way down or it won’t lift the cartridge.
If you’ve never shot a ‘73, you need to…
I guess I’ll add my opinion, too.
I would echo some of the above suggestions that using a shotgun or even a bolt-action with detachable magazines is more effective as a “fighting gun” if a semi-auto isn’t an option. I live in the rural Mid-West(ish). I imagine the odds of needing to fend off an Al-Qaida flash mob or parasailing terrorist is barely above zero, so I don’t give it much thought. Lever actions have more limited capacity, they are a pain to cycle from certain positions(like prone), and don’t cycle well upside-down, taking away my Spetznaz backflipping head shot and shovel throw finishing move. If you dent a magazine tube, that could create some feeding problems that otherwise could be solved with a magazine change. Calibers are also, IMO, somewhat inferior to actual rifle cartridges.
That being said, the following is why a Rossi 92 is my most used rifle.
I have become a bit of a Rossi 92 fan; so much so that I’m debating starting my own cult centered around it. I got a R92 “Triple Black” for Father’s Day a while back. It started as a fun plinking toy and turned into somewhat of an obsession. I’ve killed deer at just over 100yds, a few hogs closer, and holocaust-like numbers of raccoons, beavers, and groundhogs. I’ve shot somewhere around 1200 rounds of 357 (mostly reloads) and around a 5 gallon bucket full of 38s (also reloads). I have had exactly 1 malfunction, when trying 148gr HBWC. The round flipped backwards and tried to feed primer-first. Since I shoot and reload more for revolvers than anything else, it’s logistically convenient. It’s become my go-to general purpose carbine. With a Swampfox Justice green dot sight and a cheap Sig pistol light mounted on a MI rail that I bought with PA bonus bucks, it’s much more useful than it has any right to be considering the non-serious accessories, inferior cartridge, and lackluster rate of fire. It looks like a shaved poodle with fetal alcohol syndrome, but carries well, doesn’t take up much room in a SxS, and always hits somewhere on the green dot out to 100yds and change. It’s fallen out of 2 tree stands(one of them a 17’ ladder stand) and out off a SxS into standing water/mud. I clean it occasionally by spraying break-free into the action and a pass with a bore snake, or 2 other times I had to punch mud out of the bore, I used a cleaning rod section.
All of that to say, a lever action can be wonderful, but probably less effective as a “fighting gun” than several other options. I do much more “rednecking” that gun fighting, so for me it works. Customer experiences may vary.
I grew up shooting a 61 and 62, and still have the same 61. A pump .22 is indeed about as fast as a manual action rifle gets.Originally Posted by gato naranja
My personal “Redneck assault weapon” is a Henry pump in .22 magnum, with some sort of round that I researched heavily upon first purchasing the rifle; maybe CCI 45 gr solid point? I’ll have a look when I get a minute. .22 mag out of a rifle, with round selected for penetration first and expansion second is no joke, close to 9mm service pistol ballistics, if I’m remembering things correctly.
And it has almost no recoil as well; definitely more than .22 LR, but not nearly enough to factor into, well, anything, really.
But I digress.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Pump .22s have been passé for so long that even people with more time on the clock than myself may never have fooled with them, which is a pity, as they were a lot of fun when they weren't malfunctioning due to years of wear and tear.
I wanted to "go home again" with one of the Interarms/Rossi 62 SAC carbines back in the 1980's, but there were too many bills to pay, etc. The modern Braztech/Rossi's are too repellent in appearance for me to even consider now. Thus I remain .22 pump-free... and that's okay. Like finding genuinely neat trinkets in boxes of cereal, driving Plymouth Roadrunners, and watching the Chicago & North Western roll past the edge of town, I at least got to be there while the "being" was good.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
I’ve long wanted a Remington 572 pump 22 but haven’t run across one at a price I wanted to pay
Sorry to resurrect a sleeping thread, but this is a subject that has again come into relevancy for me. When I first posted this thread I went with the suggestion of just using a short bolt action rifle (Ruger American Ranch). Great gun, though much slower for me to shoot than my friend's Marlin 1894C. I now find myself looking at lever actions again with the same goal in mind: the most reliable lever action, for what it's worth with it's fragility and potential finickiness. So for the moment, let's put aside the fact that a bolt action is going to be more reliable and robust.
@jlw seems to be one of the foremost SMEs on the serious use of lever action rifles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you may believe the Marlin 336 in .30-30 is the most reliable lever action rifle? Are there any .357's that could be considered reliable, and if so which one? I understand I'd probably be stuck using only .357 (no .38) and would have to find a particular load that the rifle likes.
Also, how do you vet reliability of a lever action rifle to ensure no defects before pressing it in a "serious" use role?
I have a recent Winchester/Miroku 73 carbine in 357, it seems to feed 38 spl loads other than wadcutters just fine. The Marlin 94 in 357 I had in the early 80s worked fine with 38 spl also. Theres varying reports of different 92s working or not with 38 spl loads, Im of the mind it should be able to be tuned a bit by working on the timing of the cartridge stop and when it interacts with the part on the bolt that holds it to the side when the action is closed. If some work fine and some dont, thats the only part that makes sense as to being able to change when the action lets a different length shell out of the tube.
I havent tried it, but 73s have the cartridge captive all through the feed cycle, they may operate upside down, same with 94s and 92s depending on how soon the cartridge guide rails let the rim loose in the feed cycle, I vaguely recall myself or someone trying a 94 in 30-30 upside down and it working.
Opinions vary of course, but the Winchester 94s Ive had have been more functionally reliable than Aks, 1903 Springfields, Marlins (several guns with glitches) and one Whitworth Mauser sporter i had that wasnt set up correctly from the factory for 375 H&H. The only functional issue with any 1886 Winchesters or browning copies was one original 86 that let older remington brass past the cartridge stop, they have a very heavy bevel on the rim. I tweeked the stop with a screwdriver and it was then fine. Dont dry fire Winchesters and they seem to go on, and on, and on.... A late 1950s NRA reloading manual mentioned in the comments about the 94 Winchesters something to the effect "virtually indestructible in service" which has been my experience with them through a couple dozen guns over time since the early 70s, though keep in mind the not dry firing them part if you want them to last.
The loading part of the equation is not insurmountable. Working examples of loaders exist and may become available soon.
Vetting one? I dont know. Examples in generally good condition with no obvious home made improvements on the action and work when shot, I can feel OK about using them. FWIW, the number of little glitches ive experienced with several marlins over time is part of why I dont use them any more. From the "marlin jam", to the spring for the lever plunger that holds the lever up, one jumped the forward barrel band past its screw point and the rim of a shell stuck in the resulting gap where the mag tune goes into the receiver, with no apparent reason, it all seemed properly fitted and tight when fixed...none of any of those things have happened with any Winchester type actions. I broke the firing pin on a 94 dry firing, or using a fired case that the primer was well dented in on. Once repaired, I never dry fired one again unless with a quality snap cap, and even then I wouldnt do it extensively. Much like Smith revolvers, looking one over, checking to see if everything appears to work correctly, they generally run. And Ive not seen a Winchester that wouldnt run at slow speed. Many mention running them briskly, Ive never had one that had to be run briskly so long as you dont short stroke it.
Last edited by Malamute; 04-30-2024 at 01:35 PM.
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
That's some pretty high praise for the Winchester 94. Is this the one you're talking about? I think these are Miroku: https://www.guns.com/firearms/rifles...m_medium=df_NA
How do modern/recent production Miroku Winchester 94s compare to previous ones in terms of reliability? I can't recall hearing much issue with the Japanese-made Winchesters. I could be wrong but I would think QC would be reasonably high over there.
I'm not sure of the exact period without checking my receipts , but I have a 90s/early 2k Winchester trapper.
Absolutely reliable, wonderful fit and finish.
Probably less than 600 rounds fired, but zero issues
"... And miles to go before I sleep".
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