I think someone doing a VLOG, podcast, or written article about that would be well received by small group of shooters including myself.Originally Posted by SwampDweller
I've seen only couple articles like that over the years, Ashley Emerson (sp?) IIRC years ago wrote about taking a Thunder Ranch Urban Rifle class with a Marlin levergun, can't remember if he used a 30-30 or 357 mag.
Last edited by Dov; 11-25-2022 at 05:51 AM.
Man, I really kind of want to do this. But I'd need to get the barrel uncanted on my 336W first. Or just mount an optic (it shoots straight, but the front sight ain't straight, because...Marlin). @Flamingo
This^^^^ Rapid fire with a 336 = Hot Ass Gun. Ten rounds of .30-30 the gun is almost as hot as an M60 after ripping off a 200 round belt. It's not a gun you can shoot long without gloves. I don't guess that matters too much in a fight with it. Because realistically, trying to reload an empty lever gun is about like trying to reload a muzzle loader. Okay, that's a bit hyperbolic, but it's a real pain in the ass.
FWIW @SwampDweller my travel gun is this, a H&R Topper 48 in 12-gauge with the barrel chopped back to 19". It breaks down easily and stows inside a small duffel bag. The Topper is an ejector gun, making reloading much easier overall. I also appreciate the ease of administrative handling of the gun, by simply breaking the action open to remove the chambered round. Realistically, hitting someone at hotel room distances with a load of 00 buck probably won't require a follow up shot. I'd run a double (SxS or O/U), except I can't find a good double shotgun that has ejectors (and doesn't cost a small fortune). In my opinion, running a break action gun, ejectors are practically required and they make life much, much easier.
I focused on .44 Magnum and then .357 Magnum leverguns for a number of years. All the different designs have their strong and weak points, but they will all break somewhere eventually.
(I think that a lot of semiautos are about equally as delicate, but that is another story.)
The Browning-designed ones that I owned tended to run more reliably after they were debugged, the Hepburn-designed (Marlin) ones were easier to clean and maintain, and the one Henry that I had was not an improvement on the others in either respect. I ended up going 100% Marlin only because the 92/clones were such a PITA to detail strip whenever the things got wet or really dirty.
Sadly, the CZ527 is in the rear view mirror, but if I were looking for a manually operated, rugged, do-all rifle using a lower-recoil "deer rifle" load, the Ruger Scout in .350 Legend checks a lot of boxes, though I would not accuse any Ruger Scout of being particularly handy. If I were not recoil sensitive in my sere and yellow, the Tikka T3x Arctic is appealing.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
As much as I like lever actions, I would choose a properly set up bolt action over a lever gun every time.
While you can certainly build a very nice custom R700 into an extremely reliable and accurate rifle, there are much less expensive routes to achieve the same goal, so I would skip the R700.
A lot of people would likely say, just grab a Ruger Scout rifle. While the scout rifle has pretty much everything you need, I found them to be rather clunky and I have yet to find one with a smooth action, as compared to a Tikka. I know the T3 drum get banged on a lot here, but there is a very good reason it does.
Here is a link to the T3 Arctic, which is essentially just a 20" CTR .308 in a laminate stock, with some upgrades.
https://www.recoilweb.com/tikka-t3x-arctic-131608.html
With that in mind, for your defense/general purpose needs, I would take a T3 .308, and either leave it at 20"s or cut it back to your desired length of 16.5" or 18""s, whatever you feel works for you. Then thread the end for a brake or suppressor. You can use CTR stocks for CTR 10 or 5 round mags, or use a standard T3 and get a conversion for AI mags.
Top the rifle with an LPVO of choice.
Here is another video of a gent who was a long time Canadian Ranger that owns a CTR .308, lives in Canada and thinks/speaks very highly of the rifle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwVycMfMFUg
And an article:
https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...-arctic-rifle/
With a T3 and a proper LPVO, not too many people are going to give it a second look, as it is simply a practical hunting rifle as far as anyone is concerned. Grab yourself 3-4 mags and call yourself done.
Personally I have found that I actually like the factory single stack 5 round mags and tend to use them frequently. They are slim and fit in pockets on clothing as well as pack pockets quite easily. They load easy, feed easy and are quite durable, much like a Glock magazine, plus they are not overly expensive.
A good general purpose bolt action will never match the speed of a semi auto. Not even close. But you can certainly do good work with one and if semi autos are out of the question and you are traveling, and some of those places require that the firearms remain unloaded, having a magazine fed bolt action that you can simply slap a mag home and rack the bolt is fairly practical. Plus you have a very wide variety of ammo to choose from so you can select ammo to your environment and needs.
Ditto on a bolt action. It's why I'm working on a .45 Auto Mauser-based bolt gun.
Agree on the bolt gun for all the reasons provided.
I'd look at various compact and/or youth models in 308. Ammo is available everywhere. They typically have a 20" barrel, which is about as short as you want to go in any CF rifle cartridge. The shorter LOP accommodates women and kids while remaining workable for a grown man, plus the combination of shorter barrel/LOP generally balances very well.
I prefer fixed over detachable magazine on bolt guns; the the ACIS pattern is the exception to that rule.
Add a sling and a 1-4 variable or RDS and you're done.
Okie John
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
Bolt vs Lever.
I don't know if its a personal preference kind of issue or something else, but I know I didn't care for my Steyr Scout for anything where rate of fire mattered at all.
A BLR, Marlin 336 (as long as it wasn't a rough action in need of smoothing) or Henry lever was comparable or faster than a pump shotgun for me, the levers were all much faster than bolt guns for me. A military Mauser like my 6.5 Swede was much better for rate of aimed fire for me than the Steyr Scout ever was even though I spent lot more dry and live fire time with the Steyr. But I'd still pick a lever over the Swede for most things.
For me a decent lever, maybe a fit issue for me, like 1886, BLR, or Henry (or I assume 1873 though haven't had chance to try one yet) gave significant performance improvement over the Steyr Scout for anything involving more than 1 shot that it was like performance jump with pocket handguns going from J frame to Glock 26.
The Steyr Scout was certainly more accurate than any lever I have shot, and faster to reload than the levers except for BLR, but at least for me it was never a fast or even smooth action to work no matter how much effort I put into it. That is why after a decade or so of trying to make it work for General Purpose for me rifle I sold it to a buddy that really wanted it.
I would have slung the Scout and used J frame or G26 for anything inside 25 yards if speed and rate of fire mattered, with any of the levers would probably feel better with the lever down to 5 or 6 yards or maybe even closer depending what threat was. While a N frame, 1911, or Glock probably would have had me slinging the Scout at more like 50 yards.
I've handled CZ 527 several times but haven't shot one or the Ruger that's in similar class so IDK where they would fall for me personally.
YMMV
I've found that I prefer levers for what Cooper called General Purpose, or if I have to a semi auto. For things where I feel lever or semi auto is lacking I prefer Ruger No 1 or similar.
Maybe its just some type of bias
Last edited by Dov; 11-25-2022 at 07:45 PM.
The 6.5 Swedish and the 7x57 Mauser were great but underrated cartridges for years until they were "rediscovered," only to be buried again by shiny new substitutes that weren't really any better (and were in many cases less forgiving).
One of my shooting buddies who is a very practical and logical man swears by his 7x57 Spanish 93 that had been "sporterized" by an importer in the '60's. It is a bit slow compared to a lever, but that is offset by its absolute reliability and surprisingly good accuracy. Easy to operate, easy to clean, moderate recoil (it is a bit short and lets you know it has gone off) and will handle everything from empty pop cans up to fairly dangerous critters... it is a great utility gun. It also looks like a proverbial bumpkin's "ol' huntin' rifle," which is just how he likes it.
Were it a 9.5 Swedish Mauser, I'd still be trying to talk him out of it.
gn
"On the internet, nobody knows if you are a dog... or even a cat."
The Turks had some success for a short period of time:
https://www.militaryrifles.com/turkishwinchester
I've seen lever guns and a bolt gun run at the IDPA matches that HCM has gone to. The lever guy wasn't practiced and screwed up the stroke quite a bit. The bolt guy had it together and took at his targets with head shots. Still more of a fun run than serious. If semis are banned and not grandfathered, I'll worry.
I’d have to question how successful they were given Turks abandoned them for Mausers and no one else followed suite.
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