If you reload, you're gonna wanna see this!

[PrideAmmunitionComponents]

Hello and it’s nice to speak with you! I'm Hugh Withers, the Founder and CEO of Pride Ammunition Components, LLC. That’s the formal part; now let’s put formality aside and speak openly! A lot of Americans love guns and freedom, and I fall into both categories. During the last ammo shortage, many of us here behind the Iron Curtain in New York could not find ammunition or components, as Remington declared bankruptcy after being in business here since 1816. I couldn’t find any ammo for hunting or target shooting and the ammo I could find, my gun didn’t like. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, but it feels like putting water in your car and expecting it to drive normally; it’s not working because that isn’t what it needs to work right! So I decided to do something about it.

My shooting buddy and I started working with cast bullets and experimenting with different coatings just so we could do SOME shooting! We’re regular people who love the sport and hate not being able to shoot! With serious determination and after a lot of R&D, we discovered a way to synthesize a synthetic jacket for cast bullets that appears VERY similar to the Federal Syntech ammunition which was recently introduced. I shared a few with random other shooters, and they all asked to become customers someday. Then we stepped in Gold. It turns out the guy I used to do tree removal for had a broken Ballisticast machine, Sizer and Collator that was later soaked in Saltwater by Hurricane Sandy. Well, I bought that pile of metal and my Engineer went to work on it.

A year later we’re Federally Licensed, Internationally registered and the Casting machine is the Bride of Frankenstein; not as pretty as she once was, but she works! These are Future-Tek Synthetic Jacketed Bullets with a Ball/Hardball Core (92/6/2 Lead, Antimony, Tin) which create less friction and heat in the bore than copper jacketed bullets, so barrel life is increased. There is much less cleaning than with standard lead bullets. Additionally, there is less penetration through household building materials than standard FMJ’s, more energy transfer due to meplats instead of FMJ tips, and the accuracy… well, I’ll let you judge that for yourself. Now everyone in the USA has direct access to a manufacturer without a middle-man; no personal information records are required to be submitted to the state for components sales and no more extra taxes! We offer sample packs as small as (25) bullets for testing 5 consecutive, 5 shot groups, or we can run off 10,000 for your local range or itchy trigger finger. Do you like teasing your Friends with accurate shots while their factory loads make groups like buckshot?

Give us a call or check us out on Instagram at #Pride_Ammo! We're be happy to squeeze your order in with the big ones we fill and we're happy to answer questions!

[Deaf Smith]

Looks good.

I'd love to see a 100 grain SWC for a .380 acp coated that would work in a Glock 42.

[mizer67]

I understand wanting to promote your company, but my $0.02 worth, I think you need to work on your value proposition.

Reloaders are value oriented buyers, typically. Your bullets are about ~33% higher than I typically see for similar products at similar 1000+ volumes. Availability of bullets isn't really an major issue that I see these days, so having them available isn't a significant differentiator.

At these prices, at case volume, you can get jacketed hollow points or FMJRN for less in many calibers from some established sources and those are extremely accurate and consistent, plus jacketed aren't finicky about reloading practices or equipment.

Last, shooting one group from 5 yards as an accuracy bonafide isn't something I'd post. Shoot at 50 yards and get <3" 10-round groups and it might be something that would create interest in a premium product.

I can't identify a differentiator in your marketing that would make me consider these vs. a more established and already well regarded source of supply.

[okie john]

I understand wanting to promote your company, but my $0.02 worth, I think you need to work on your value proposition.

Reloaders are value oriented buyers, typically. Your bullets are about ~33% higher than I typically see for similar products at similar 1000+ volumes. Availability of bullets isn't really an major issue that I see these days, so having them available isn't a significant differentiator.

At these prices, at case volume, you can get jacketed hollow points or FMJRN for less in many calibers from some established sources and those are extremely accurate and consistent, plus jacketed aren't finicky about reloading practices or equipment.

Last, shooting one group from 5 yards as an accuracy bonafide isn't something I'd post. Shoot at 50 yards and get <3" 10-round groups and it might be something that would create interest in a premium product.

I can't identify a differentiator in your marketing that would make me consider these vs. a more established and already well regarded source of supply.

I agree with mizer67. I'll add that a lot of cast bullet shooters go pretty deep into the weeds on the details of how bullets, designs, and lubes perform. Off the top of my head, I see a few gaps in the information you're providing:

• Your bullets LOOK like powder-coated bullets, so people will compare the two. Many powder-coated bullets outperform bullets using traditional lubricants in high-velocity and high-pressure applications. How do your bullets handle high velocity and high pressure?
• Powder-coated bullets are priced to compete with premium traditional makers like Montana Bullet Works. Your bullets are more expensive. What makes them worth the extra cost?
• A bullet with 92% lead content is pretty soft, which affects terminal performance. What are the Brinell Hardness Numbers (bhn) for your products? Are they all the same, or do you offer harder/softer variants for different uses? How do your bullets behave on impact? Would they be a good choice for hunting tough game like feral hogs and black bear? If so, what are the ideal pressures for these applications? If they're too soft for tougher game, are they adequate for lighter game like deer and antelope? Again, if so, what are the ideal pressures for this use?
• Bullet fit matters almost more than anything else. Do you offer a range of sizing options? Do you size the bullets before you coat them? How thick is your synthetic coating? Does it force you to cast undersized bullets and then make up the difference with the coating? Does it vary with caliber and bullet design or is it the same for everything? What effect does this have on pressures? How consistent is it across a batch of 1,000 bullets?
• The bullets you show look like they were cast from Lyman, H&G or LBT moulds, which is good. Since your coating eliminates the need for lube grooves, it seems like the sky is the limit for design. Have you found that any traditional designs work better than others with the unique qualities of your coating method? Have you developed any new designs based on what you learned? If so, how have they performed?
• Off-gassing will be a big deal for shooters who use indoor ranges. What issues have you found with off-gassing from your synthetic coating? How did you test for them, what were the results, and how can we mitigate them?
• How do you know that your bullets provide “…less penetration through household building materials than standard FMJ’s…”? How did you test them? Where are the pictures from those tests? How many inches of penetration did you achieve? Folks on this site care deeply about terminal performance. We understand it, we understand the science behind it, and we have an entire forum dedicated to it (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition) which is moderated by one of the most highly regarded SMEs in the industry. We’re going to look for figures using 10% Type 250A ordnance gelatin that has been stored for several days at 4 degrees Celsius, then properly prepared, validated, and calibrated. Your figures should include either an FBI type assessment using at least the six standard FBI tests at 10 feet (bare gel, heavy clothing, sheet steel, wallboard, plywood, auto glass), with the possible addition of the heavy clothing and auto glass tests at 20 yards or a three event IWBA type test using bare gelatin, 4 layer denim, and auto windshield tests all at 10 feet. You can see good examples at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....istol-calibers
• People here shoot a lot and some of them are very good. 5-yard groups won’t do. Could you shoot some at 50 and 100?

I’ve done a bit of casting and reloading over the years. I've also worked in marketing for a while. Send me a PM if you need a hand.


Okie John

[Clusterfrack]

…
I’ve done a bit of casting and reloading over the years. I've also worked in marketing for a while. Send me a PM if you need a hand.

@okie john, thanks for representing Pistol-Forum in such a generous and knowledgeable way. I’m very glad you’re here.

[okie john]

@okie john, thanks for representing Pistol-Forum in such a generous and knowledgeable way. I’m very glad you’re here.

Thanks for the kind words.


Okie John

[PrideAmmunitionComponents]

I understand wanting to promote your company, but my $0.02 worth, I think you need to work on your value proposition.

Reloaders are value oriented buyers, typically. Your bullets are about ~33% higher than I typically see for similar products at similar 1000+ volumes. Availability of bullets isn't really an major issue that I see these days, so having them available isn't a significant differentiator.

At these prices, at case volume, you can get jacketed hollow points or FMJRN for less in many calibers from some established sources and those are extremely accurate and consistent, plus jacketed aren't finicky about reloading practices or equipment.

Last, shooting one group from 5 yards as an accuracy bonafide isn't something I'd post. Shoot at 50 yards and get <3" 10-round groups and it might be something that would create interest in a premium product.

I can't identify a differentiator in your marketing that would make me consider these vs. a more established and already well regarded source of supply.

It's ok, some people aren't adventurous and I don't know if we could help improve your groups or not yet. We'd have to see. If you're adventurous we can find out!

Are you saying I'm a cheap son of a bitch for reloading and picking up cases like it's an Easter Egg hunt?! LoL fair enough, reloaders are definitely cost-conscious. We also like to break balls and shoot better groups than the guy next to us at the range, and we like winning matches. I can understand your point of view and thank you for sharing! I will address each of your concerns. We don't make the cheapest bullets; we make the best bullets at a fair price.

1. You are fortunate and I'm jealous! In New York the availability of ammo and components almost entirely disappeared for a while, although Walmart warehouse workers said they saw pallets of ammo being shipped away from here every single day. They weren't allowed to buy them. There appears to be a concerted effort to limit our access to ammunition and components on the East Coast. The differentiator is that I'm not owned by a bank or conglomerate, and I'm NOT one of the major companies who are part of the Freedom Arms Group that sell guns but push for civilian disarmament. I've put my life savings into helping keep the second amendment alive. It's not just about money; it's about preserving the American way of life. How many people today would risk everything they have for people they'll never meet?

2. If you look at the performance of SWC and FN over FMJ and RN bullets regarding penetration, deformation and energy transfer (or lack of) when hitting bone and glass-material penetration, SWC's and FN's are a much better round than FMJ or round nose. SWC's will impart all of their energy onto bone, RN's and FMJ's tend to skid off depending on the speed and angle. Many of the major handgun competitions are won with SWC's, as they offer the best balance of accuracy while cutting clean holes.

3. At volumes over 1,000...we share our tiered pricing! Thank you for mentioning it! We didn't forget about the serious Reloaders; that first page is for newbies and people who want to try out the products without buying a bunch. We want to make sure everyone's gun likes them before they invest in 1,000 or more. Client satisfaction is top priority.

4. That photo was from a Client who wanted to share an experience as he just passed his CCW class, and was very excited that our bullets helped him shrink his groups; I haven't had time to shoot in almost a year as there are two of us here doing everything, so we simply re-post from Client experiences.

Please help support your community! Not many young people are starting manufacturing companies due to the headaches and paperwork. So they'd rather sit on Social Media. What happens when all of the major companies are owned by one conglomerate 20 years from now, and they decide your state doesn't get as much ammo anymore like they're doing to us? What if another Presidential election is stolen? Will we see another shortage like the Obama years when we all considered reloading .22's? I sure hope not!

I'll follow-up and post some more photos for you Guys when they come in and share some freebies for more independent reviews. What would you like to try?

[PrideAmmunitionComponents]

I agree with mizer67. I'll add that a lot of cast bullet shooters go pretty deep into the weeds on the details of how bullets, designs, and lubes perform. Off the top of my head, I see a few gaps in the information you're providing:

• Your bullets LOOK like powder-coated bullets, so people will compare the two. Many powder-coated bullets outperform bullets using traditional lubricants in high-velocity and high-pressure applications. How do your bullets handle high velocity and high pressure?
• Powder-coated bullets are priced to compete with premium traditional makers like Montana Bullet Works. Your bullets are more expensive. What makes them worth the extra cost?
• A bullet with 92% lead content is pretty soft, which affects terminal performance. What are the Brinell Hardness Numbers (bhn) for your products? Are they all the same, or do you offer harder/softer variants for different uses? How do your bullets behave on impact? Would they be a good choice for hunting tough game like feral hogs and black bear? If so, what are the ideal pressures for these applications? If they're too soft for tougher game, are they adequate for lighter game like deer and antelope? Again, if so, what are the ideal pressures for this use?
• Bullet fit matters almost more than anything else. Do you offer a range of sizing options? Do you size the bullets before you coat them? How thick is your synthetic coating? Does it force you to cast undersized bullets and then make up the difference with the coating? Does it vary with caliber and bullet design or is it the same for everything? What effect does this have on pressures? How consistent is it across a batch of 1,000 bullets?
• The bullets you show look like they were cast from Lyman, H&G or LBT moulds, which is good. Since your coating eliminates the need for lube grooves, it seems like the sky is the limit for design. Have you found that any traditional designs work better than others with the unique qualities of your coating method? Have you developed any new designs based on what you learned? If so, how have they performed?
• Off-gassing will be a big deal for shooters who use indoor ranges. What issues have you found with off-gassing from your synthetic coating? How did you test for them, what were the results, and how can we mitigate them?
• How do you know that your bullets provide “…less penetration through household building materials than standard FMJ’s…”? How did you test them? Where are the pictures from those tests? How many inches of penetration did you achieve? Folks on this site care deeply about terminal performance. We understand it, we understand the science behind it, and we have an entire forum dedicated to it (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition) which is moderated by one of the most highly regarded SMEs in the industry. We’re going to look for figures using 10% Type 250A ordnance gelatin that has been stored for several days at 4 degrees Celsius, then properly prepared, validated, and calibrated. Your figures should include either an FBI type assessment using at least the six standard FBI tests at 10 feet (bare gel, heavy clothing, sheet steel, wallboard, plywood, auto glass), with the possible addition of the heavy clothing and auto glass tests at 20 yards or a three event IWBA type test using bare gelatin, 4 layer denim, and auto windshield tests all at 10 feet. You can see good examples at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....istol-calibers
• People here shoot a lot and some of them are very good. 5-yard groups won’t do. Could you shoot some at 50 and 100?

I’ve done a bit of casting and reloading over the years. I've also worked in marketing for a while. Send me a PM if you need a hand.


Okie John

Hi John!

Thank you for reaching out! I'd be happy to answer your questions.

*Yes, our bullets appear very similar to the Hi-Tek coated ones that have been on the market for around 10 years. They are similar in nature; however the real difference is that our process allows for speeds up to 2,350 fps out of a hot-loaded .35 Remington with no jacket separation and no need for additional lubricant! R&D is ongoing for higher speeds and we have a lot of requests to complete our .223/ 5.56 bullet. They are quite lubricious in nature and the bonding process really works well. Plated bullets are only rated to 1,500 fps max.

*The costs of our bullets are very similar to Missouri Bullet Company and Blue Bullets; the difference is in the quality. Everyone who does independent testing comments how mine appear to be much smoother than all of our competition. Here is a scenario; down the block they are giving away a free car. It is a 2020 Toyota Corolla with a/c and power windows. However, for a penny, you can get a brand new Mustang Cobra with the removable roof. Why would you want the Mustang? The Corolla is cheaper, right? Or would it be worth paying a penny to make sure you got something with class and style? Just a penny.

*Good question. Ball composite, which is used in most military applications (minus the penetrator) is the same used in FMJ's underneath the jacket. We are currently keeping our Brinell level around 18-22; just enough to keep it together on game (with slight deformation when encountering rock), not brittle enough to cause splash-back on indoor ranges. Ideal pressure so far is around 40,000 psi (up to 2,350 fps in a .35 Rem) and rising. A Client has recently commented he uses them on hog and deer in 10mm.

*Bullet fit matters most. We have them sized AFTER coating and then they are each hand-inspected. Fortunately the process has been simplified and each bullet comes out the same way. The coating is .0003 or so*Nice catch! These are Hensley and Gibbs original molds from a Ballisticast machine! We have spoken to a lot of the older generations of casters who say they've found found through testing that the final grease-groove actually cleans the lands and grooves a bit as it exits the barrel, so we'll keep 'em on there! Additionally the "Triple Shock X bullet" is touted as having "strengthening bands" so we'll take extra strength in our designs if we can get it in there. We are currently looking into molds for a .300 Blackout once we have the cashflow.

*Off-gassing is a concern for many people, especially indoors. If the coating is fully sealed there is no exposure to lead until impact. Upon impact with steel-targets, the bullets will deform and some lead exposure is to be expected when picking up fired bullets, though with much less splash-back. With proper ventilation by indoor range standards, as long as there is a basic air-vacuum/ ventilation system in place, there should be no worries. You can contact Gerry at Rockdale Rod and Gun Club in NY for further range upgrade inquiries, they have recently redone their entire indoor range and it looks amazing!

*Regarding penetration, we did informal testing on drywall in front of 4x4 targets and found that FMJ's do penetrate deeper in household materials. Unfortunately it was many months ago we didn't take pictures that day. I WISH I could get out and do some more shooting myself. I have not performed any testing for FBI protocols Maybe I should send you some free stuff...I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions! I'll send you a DM. Thanks!

[okie john]

Hi John!

Thank you for reaching out! I'd be happy to answer your questions.

*Yes, our bullets appear very similar to the Hi-Tek coated ones that have been on the market for around 10 years. They are similar in nature; however the real difference is that our process allows for speeds up to 2,350 fps out of a hot-loaded .35 Remington with no jacket separation and no need for additional lubricant! R&D is ongoing for higher speeds and we have a lot of requests to complete our .223/ 5.56 bullet. They are quite lubricious in nature and the bonding process really works well. Plated bullets are only rated to 1,500 fps max.

*The costs of our bullets are very similar to Missouri Bullet Company and Blue Bullets; the difference is in the quality. Everyone who does independent testing comments how mine appear to be much smoother than all of our competition. Here is a scenario; down the block they are giving away a free car. It is a 2020 Toyota Corolla with a/c and power windows. However, for a penny, you can get a brand new Mustang Cobra with the removable roof. Why would you want the Mustang? The Corolla is cheaper, right? Or would it be worth paying a penny to make sure you got something with class and style? Just a penny.

*Good question. Ball composite, which is used in most military applications (minus the penetrator) is the same used in FMJ's underneath the jacket. We are currently keeping our Brinell level around 18-22; just enough to keep it together on game (with slight deformation when encountering rock), not brittle enough to cause splash-back on indoor ranges. Ideal pressure so far is around 40,000 psi (up to 2,350 fps in a .35 Rem) and rising. A Client has recently commented he uses them on hog and deer in 10mm.

*Bullet fit matters most. We have them sized AFTER coating and then they are each hand-inspected. Fortunately the process has been simplified and each bullet comes out the same way. The coating is .0003 or so*Nice catch! These are Hensley and Gibbs original molds from a Ballisticast machine! We have spoken to a lot of the older generations of casters who say they've found found through testing that the final grease-groove actually cleans the lands and grooves a bit as it exits the barrel, so we'll keep 'em on there! Additionally the "Triple Shock X bullet" is touted as having "strengthening bands" so we'll take extra strength in our designs if we can get it in there. We are currently looking into molds for a .300 Blackout once we have the cashflow.

*Off-gassing is a concern for many people, especially indoors. If the coating is fully sealed there is no exposure to lead until impact. Upon impact with steel-targets, the bullets will deform and some lead exposure is to be expected when picking up fired bullets, though with much less splash-back. With proper ventilation by indoor range standards, as long as there is a basic air-vacuum/ ventilation system in place, there should be no worries. You can contact Gerry at Rockdale Rod and Gun Club in NY for further range upgrade inquiries, they have recently redone their entire indoor range and it looks amazing!

*Regarding penetration, we did informal testing on drywall in front of 4x4 targets and found that FMJ's do penetrate deeper in household materials. Unfortunately it was many months ago we didn't take pictures that day. I WISH I could get out and do some more shooting myself. I have not performed any testing for FBI protocols Maybe I should send you some free stuff...I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions! I'll send you a DM. Thanks!

Thanks for addressing my questions.

I'm not looking for anything free, but thanks.


Okie John

[PrideAmmunitionComponents]

Looks good.

I'd love to see a 100 grain SWC for a .380 acp coated that would work in a Glock 42.

We offer a limited run of 95 grain FN .380's (that I carry myself every day) to members of the Preferred Clients List. It appears very difficult to get shoulders and grooves on the smaller bullet, but the FN is a badass little design with a nice meplat. DM me. I'll make an exception and I'll have some made up for ya. I know you'll love 'em!

Thank you for your support!