Poll: P320 Unintentional Discharge Issues

[HCM]

I will agree that it is not the same thing in one way: you have to pay for all of it. As others have mentioned, if it's an issued, agency-owned weapon, the agency is gonna pay for the parts and maintenance. That is a big deal if you shoot a lot and have to do small parts and spring replacement at regular intervals.

There are Armorers, and then there are 'armorers'. The latter are those dudes who attended a 1-2 day Factory Armorer Course, and are the agency "Gun Guy". They are often tinkerers, and frankly just as likely to fuck up your gun as fix anything. Most agencies, if they have anything, have someone who fits into this category. So "Armorer Support" is not the silver bullet that people think it is. I think that's the point the guys are trying to get across.

I was very fortunate in my former job to have two full-time, dedicated armorers working on my staff at the range. They were officers who tested for the position, attended factory armorer training for every weapon system we used (including some Master Certification and Instructor courses), and also underwent a six month in house apprenticeship. They've been in the job for years, and have extensive inside industry knowledge and contacts. They bring a level of skill and knowledge that a 1-2 day class on detail stripping just can't match. Ask @Wayne Dobbs about the knowledge and competence of SFPD's two armorers.

All that said, this was the exception, not the rule, in our area. The support for most agencies was non-existent. We often fielded calls for help from other agencies' officers, especially for personally owned duty guns. My guys would stick around and meet those officers ON THEIR OWN TIME....because that's the kind of dudes they are. But again....exception, not the rule. Most other agencies send the guns back to the factory for a fix. Yes....they might have a spare gun to hand out (or likely not if it's personally owned). And yes, it's more expensive and inconvenient to have to do this as a private citizen (believe me I know now that I IS one). But heck....hasn't that been the general consensus on this forum for the last decade?

Your assessment of most agency armorers is spot on.

My local municipal PD has a great firearms training program, however, their armorer is a middle-age lady who seems to have gotten the position by being someone’s relative (not uncommon here). I assisted one of my task force partners in getting his personally owned rifle, set up and approved for duty use. The armorer inspection consisted of making sure it had a black or dark grey finish, measuring the barrel to make sure it was at least 16 inches, showing that he had at least 2 30 round magazines, and then measuring the trigger pull weight to ensure it was > 4lbs. That’s it. No function checks etc.

If an officer has an actual function issue with a rifle and the range staff can address it they usually send them over to SOLGW…..

[AMC]

Your assessment of most agency armorers is spot on.

My local municipal PD has a great firearms training program, however, their armorer is a middle-age lady who seems to have gotten the position by being someone’s relative (not uncommon here). I assisted one of my task force partners in getting his personally owned rifle, set up and approved for duty use. The armorer inspection consisted of making sure it had a black or dark grey finish, measuring the barrel to make sure it was at least 16 inches, showing that he had at least 2 30 round magazines, and then measuring the trigger pull weight to ensure it was > 4lbs. That’s it. No function checks etc.

If an officer has an actual function issue with a rifle and the range staff can address it they usually send them over to SOLGW…..

Even good programs and systems can fall apart when the Good Idea Fairy gets a seat at the table. There's been a push by certain specialized units in my old agency to have their own 'Unit Armorers'. This is mostly because they want to do and buy a bunch of really stupid shit without oversight. After I left, the powers that be seem to be listening. We're talking about a group of folks who have a history of ordering guns and accessories (in total violation of department policy) with mismatched and incompatible parts (rifles with Keymod rails and then.ordering M Lok parts....because it's all parts, right?). Or ordering a couple of Sig Rattlers in .223 (again in direct violation of department policy and my explicitly directives) because they need Body Armor penetration capability and an M4 or even a 11.5" Commando just won't fit in the lockbox in their trunks (which strangely fit a full size rifle with A2 stock). The fact that no ammo we used or could reasonable get would reliably penetrate body armor out of that 5" barrel? Irrelevant....its cool. But hey.....they know gun stuff. They saw the youtube commercials!

[MDFA]

For what it's worth I'm currently in the School Guardian Academy for my new job. During this first week in 4 days of live fire we have fired 3000 rounds per day thru 7 Sig P320 pistols. That's a total of 12000 rounds. Now 7 Pistols is far from a large sampling of pistols, but other than about 10 ammo related Failure to Fire issues, there have been no problems. We have 5 weeks to go. I'll give an update at the end of the training.

I know we don't usually quote ourselves, but in an effort to keep this updated... In an additional 3 days of training the round count is up to 21000 rounds total for the 7 pistols and shooters. No issues except for ammo related Failures to Fire. (Winchester White Box and Federal Red Box Training). 2 Shooters had the Grip Modules changed from Medium to Small by the on site Instructors/Armorers, other than that there has been no maintenance except for each shooter giving their pistol a quick clean and light lube each night.

The pistols are running fine. The Shooters could use some on site support however... My hands are talking to me, and they're not saying nice things...

[jnc36rcpd]

I voted with my feet today by selling my pre-2019 at my local gun store. I'm sure I could have gotten a better deal by selling it privately[B]ut I didn't want to go forth wondering if a friend or colleague would have an uncommanded discharge. It is now just another used 320 for sale to anyone willing to purchase a used early model 320. I do have some regrets as I really like carrying and shooting the weapon. Had it been a current model, I probably would have kept the weapon and trained around the light trigger with short take-up.

Like many departments, I made this purchase based on my prior experience with the SIG 226 and other 22X models. I envisioned the weapon as an off-duty and retirement gun. Should I ever decide I really prefer a 320 over a Glock, I'll get a current model with an optics cut...or, better yet, a 365 XL or Macro.

[Warped Mindless]

I just purchased a new one that was made November of 2021.

To be clear, all the issues are 2019 and earlier, correct? I bought one because Ive been carrying the sig 365x and XL for a while now and wanted a bigger gun with the same grip angle and overall “feel” and I got a great deal on it.

[HCM]

I just purchased a new one that was made November of 2021.

To be clear, all the issues are 2019 and earlier, correct? I bought one because Ive been carrying the sig 365x and XL for a while now and wanted a bigger gun with the same grip angle and overall “feel” and I got a great deal on it.

June 2019 and earlier.

[JonInWA]

May 31st and earlier; June 1st and later should be fine.

Best, Jon

[mcgivro]

I think its only fair to point out you are getting a LE gun and armorer support. None of that is available to the average citizen.

Are you under the impression that LE gets special/different guns? Blue Label Glocks are exactly the same as “civilian” models.

[UNK]

Are you under the impression that LE gets special/different guns? Blue Label Glocks are exactly the same as “civilian” models.

According to LEOs on the forum Sig has a LEO only SKU and “Supposedly” special something Im really not sure what it is.

[WobblyPossum]

According to LEOs on the forum Sig has a LEO only SKU and “Supposedly” special something Im really not sure what it is.

It’s not just Sig. The SKUs for Blue Label Glocks are different from the SKUs for Red Label guns and White Label guns. That doesn’t mean the guns themselves are different. The only thing that differentiates a “W” SKU Sig from a non-“W” SKU gun is some additional QC checking. It’s the same gun except someone actually looked it over before sending it to a distributor.