Poll: P320 Unintentional Discharge Issues

[JonInWA]

There have been no issues with the Check-Mate 17 round magazines that I've either personally experienced or anecdotally heard of to date. Mine have been run predominantly with the OEM Henning Group superb basepads, but I've also regularly used the Gray Guns aluminum low profile pad, and the OEM SIG polymer pads. I'm utilizing the X-Carry grip shell with a Compact RX slide/barrel assembly. While statistically somewhat inevitably there will likely be some outliers, to date these seem to be very well made and performing. Check-Mate magazines also have a lifetime guarantee.

For my Compact grip shell, I have 4 of the OEM magazines Mec-Gar manufactures for SIG, they're excellent as well.

I'd also heard of issues with the previous non-Check-Mate US SIG magazine vendor.

Keep in mind too that there are essentially two series of magazines (earlier production and subsequent later production ones) for the P320, and there may be compatibility issues with basepads and/or grip shells.

And, as we've discussed in a previous p-f thread, running a higher capacity magazine then the grip shell is designed for can be a Major Bad Idea, as over-insertion can damage the FCU.

Best, Jon

[Wondering Beard]

As for building from the best available parts….

Thread drift.

Homage by John Wick.

[GJM]

And back to the regular programming...

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

[Guerrero]

And back to the regular programming...

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

Must be something in the water here.

[Sig_Fiend]

I'm as pessimistic as any on the P320 platform's safety record. That said, I still haven't seen anyone lay out a specific case as to how these alleged holstered discharges are happening. I've wracked my brain trying to figure out what obscure series of failures could lead to it, if it is in fact a real thing as opposed to merely a low margin for error platform.

The only thing I can think of is some sort of tolerance stacking issue combined with a holster, pressure or torque applied to the holster, causing the slide and frame to torque independent of each other enough that the striker is able to be released. The firing pin safety would somehow have to be articulated in that process, and I'm not seeing how that could occur short of a component failure (FPS spring) or trigger pull.

[AMC]

And back to the regular programming...

https://www.wisn.com/article/federal...tings/42117573

This is still pretty fresh but....paging @HCM for any inside baseball on this. Whenever cops are involved, my first thought is ND, especially with a striker fired handgun. This is almost certainly a DHS Sku gun, so the cause is important here. With everything that's been said, it's important to remember that LEOs have ND'd with DAO guns. It's a pretty unique talent born of a combined lack of training and complacency.

[TheNewbie]

I just can’t get a sense of peace that would enable me to carry one. Even if the AD issues are all NDs, I just can’t get comfortable with how that trigger feels and how light it is.


I do get why some people feel ok with them, and I hope they work for all who use them.

[HCM]

This is still pretty fresh but....paging @HCM for any inside baseball on this. Whenever cops are involved, my first thought is ND, especially with a striker fired handgun. This is almost certainly a DHS Sku gun, so the cause is important here. With everything that's been said, it's important to remember that LEOs have ND'd with DAO guns. It's a pretty unique talent born of a combined lack of training and complacency.

News to me, but I 100% concur - when ever cops are involved my first thought is ND not mechanical issue. It’s like the medical diagnostic rule - “if you hear hoof beats, think horses, not Zebras.”

I also have seen ND’s with DAO, LEM and DAK guns as well as Glocks.

You’re still mixing cops, with all the qualities @AMC mentioned, with a gun that has a short, light trigger pull.

So far the majority of 320 NDs I’m aware of have involved dawning or re-holstering. Mostly on the range but in one instance an LEO reholstering a 320 in office after drawing it to confirm serial number for inventory. I’m aware of one in Florida where an off duty LEO’s gun somehow fell out of a holster at a wine tasting event (which is, it self a problem). Appears they tried to catch the gun resulting in an ND that injured the LEO and a bystander.



Remember the only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops. That means guys using cheap, crappy holsters or using P229R holsters cause they “kinda fit.”

Or no holster at all. Within the past two months I’ve had chats with LEOs to explain why it’s a bad idea to pocket carry a P365 without a pocket holster or carry a loaded P320 loose in a EDC back pack.

Speaking of, not every incident involving ICE /HSI is going to involve P320s. We authorize the 365 series guns as POW and it’s common for people to carry them when working in office or doing lower risk field work. We’ve also authorized POW Glocks for over 15 years. So no guarantee this WI incident or the FL incident involved p320s.

[HCM]

I just can’t get a sense of peace that would enable me to carry one. Even if the AD issues are all NDs, I just can’t get comfortable with how that trigger feels and how light it is.


I do get why some people feel ok with them, and I hope they work for all who use them.

And that is a legitimate for either not choosing a 320 or choosing a manual safety version.

The option for an SCD is another valid argument for Glock.

[HCM]

I'm as pessimistic as any on the P320 platform's safety record. That said, I still haven't seen anyone lay out a specific case as to how these alleged holstered discharges are happening. I've wracked my brain trying to figure out what obscure series of failures could lead to it, if it is in fact a real thing as opposed to merely a low margin for error platform.

The only thing I can think of is some sort of tolerance stacking issue combined with a holster, pressure or torque applied to the holster, causing the slide and frame to torque independent of each other enough that the striker is able to be released. The firing pin safety would somehow have to be articulated in that process, and I'm not seeing how that could occur short of a component failure (FPS spring) or trigger pull.

The article on the Milwaukee incident has a whole bunch of smoke but it does not actually say the gun went off in the holster.

Not to mention the “anonymous sources” are likely affiliated with MPD which seems to have a beef with SIG.

Cops being cops, and cops NOT being gun people: 1) NDs are, unfortunately, a regular thing and have been from the DA revolver days; 2) I’d bet one of @GJM’s “P-F Dollars” this will wind up being an ND.