Poll: P320 Unintentional Discharge Issues

[Kirk]

I just bought an M18 from a forum member before the Milwaukee thread and this thread, and thinking I’ll just end up trading it on another P365. I like that design better and feel safer with it. Judging from the poll results, it seems I’m in the majority there lol

[Noah]

40 Cal carry redbox with the VUP. Unfired. If I had to guess, police trade-in for the VUP where the PD got new weapons and Sig did the VUP and sold them redbox.

I have my own opinion, but I can only recommend you read the July 2020 Lawsuit P320 thread on the forum for some truly great info and decide for yourself whether it's worth it.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-P320-Concerns

[maximus83]

As a certified 320 armorer and an LE, I have carried the 320 and will continue to do so, until there is a proven flaw with them. Now with that I will also say, I do believe the design, IE, the larger trigger surface, and short take up and break, have contributed and will continue to cause ND situations, especially in LE.

I don't think the guns are just going off by themselves, but I do believe the casual handling of them by officers is causing a disconcerting amount of the reported ND issues. The guns are performing as they should, when the trigger is pulled, however, I don't believe there is enough tolerance built into to the design that allows anything but absolute discipline when holstering and in the holster from outside interferences, IE jackets, shirts, etc.

A duty weapon is exposed to these things daily and in certain situations it can be difficult to keep track of your jacket, pull tabs, shirts etc. As duty weapon should not be as sensitive to these outside forces as I believe the 320 is. IMO the standard 320 variant, is very much like carrying a 1911, with the safety in the off position.

TXPO

This is for me is the best concise summary I've seen of this entire issue. Says it better than I could--and with some credibility from somebody who's worked with the 320 internals.

I voted for the "yes" option: I'm NOT confident in the 320's safety record. But not mainly because of the magical uncommanded discharge issue. I'm agnostic on the question of whether the 2020+ 320's have had real uncommanded discharges. Human nature being what it is, and going with Occam's Razor and the simplest most plausible explanation, it seems likely these discharges are simple ND's where the user is unaware (or unwilling to admit) that their holster or handling caused an ND. It's hard to know, but the "uncommanded discharge" thing is hard to prove, and IMHO has not been proven with any confidence.

But what we know for sure is that as @Texaspoff says, there have been a "disconcerting amount of reported ND issues." THAT is what really gets me...regardless of the cause. Even if the entire cause of discharges in the 2020+ pistols is user-caused ND's, there's *still* the concern that the design of the short and light trigger makes the 320 less forgiving and more prone to ND's if users have anything less than "absolute discipline" in handling their pistol.

It's a risk and a headache that I, as a non-LE shooter who can choose my pistol, don't need. I liked my 2022 RXP full-size 320 in the brief time I had it: totally reliable not a single FTF, shot like a laser with the Romeo 1 Pro red dot, and had a nice trigger. But honestly, I didn't shoot any better with it than with my G45 with an RDS, and my 9mm 1911's can still run circles around them both. The RXP was good but not great, and with the trigger risk (whether the risk is ME handling it less than perfectly even one time, or some unknown mechanical discharge issue), I decided it wasn't worth it. Sold off my 320, it's Glocks going forward.

[titsonritz]

I won't own one, let alone carry one. There are too many other options out there to risk it. Sig has gotten along just fine without my business all there years, I suspect they will continue to do so.

[DocGKR]

Although they shoot well, the 320 is not a pistol I would desire to carry. The 365 seems more robust and reliable.

[GJM]

Wonder when Sig will offer a 365 variant that takes 320 magazines and optics with an RMR/Romeo 2 footprint?

[Rex G]

I am not confident in the P320’s safety record.

I carried P220 and P229 duty pistols, considered them to have been safe, and still do. If I still had money to burn, I might be shopping for a nice P226, which is my idea of the perfect classic SIG pistol. The P365 Macro has my attention; it just might have a long-enough grip frame to reach all the way to the “heel bone” of my hand, so, I want to handle one. (Compact nines vex my arthritis.)

[Sig_Fiend]

Considering the modularity of the platform, I'm a little disappointed that the aftermarket hasn't taken more advantage of it. A lot of the mods out there are superficial, cosmetic, and external. Almost no one makes internal parts for them, except for maybe the actual trigger. Where are the tool steel sears, for example? How about an entirely CNC'd FCU built for precision fitment (e.g. for one, flat FCU slide rails for perfect slide fit)? How about a custom FCU + grip module designed to take Glock mags, if only to troll the internet. There probably couldn't be a better platform to enable this.

On the subject of safety, there are probably a number of modifications that could be done. Maybe double the height of the sear face. Also, double the width of the striker foot that engages the sear face. Overall creating a broader contact patch on the sear with more travel. Then, increase the length of trigger travel. I'd love to see the dual, little, sear springs replaced with a single and more substantial spring.

Also, I'd love to see a redesigned sear and trigger bar that physically prevents movement of the sear unless the trigger is pulled. Theoretically, in current form, inertia can still move the sear. This is true of many other striker-fired guns, such as the VP9. Whether it's an actual issue is debatable. Regardless, I'd like the peace of mind of a sear that can't physically move, similar in concept to Glock's drop safety ledge.

Also, redesign the striker housing and FPS so that the FPS is no longer a lever arm and is a more conventional block or cylinder that articulates linearly. How about a striker housing + striker with much tighter fitment since the stock unit feels a bit sloppy. Also a redesigned striker housing to eliminate that little striker return spring. Maybe none of this would do much of anything, but I think it would at least be interesting to see the aftermarket experiment with it. It's the possibilities like this that make me almost want to buy one of these again.

[psalms144.1]

On the subject of safety, there are probably a number of modifications that could be done. Maybe double the height of the sear face. Also, double the width of the striker foot that engages the sear face. Overall creating a broader contact patch on the sear with more travel.

Also, I'd love to see a redesigned sear and trigger bar that physically prevents movement of the sear unless the trigger is pulled. Theoretically, in current form, inertia can still move the sear. Whether it's an actual issue is debatable. Regardless, I'd like the peace of mind of a sear that can't physically move, similar in concept to Glock's drop safety ledge.

Also, redesign the striker housing and FPS so that the FPS is no longer a lever arm and is a more conventional block or cylinder that articulates linearly. How about a striker housing + striker with much tighter fitment since the stock unit feels a bit sloppy. Also a redesigned striker housing to eliminate that little striker return spring. Maybe none of this would do much of anything, but I think it would at least be interesting to see the aftermarket experiment with it. It's the possibilities like this that make me almost want to buy one of these again.

I agree with all of this. ESPECIALLY the comments about the suicidally tiny engagement surfaces on the sear and striker.

Again, unfortunately, I doubt any of this will happen. Too big of a redesign for Sig to roll out without admitting the original design is fundamentally flawed, which we KNOW they'll never do (witness the VUP). And, doing these changes might make the trigger "not as nice" leading to complaints from shooters who don't care about safety.

I miss the days when you bought Sig products because you knew they were going to work, every time, out of the box. Not the best triggers, or lightest weight, or highest capacity, but reliability, quality and safety were built in, so the price was not objectionable.

[JCS]

Considering the modularity of the platform, I'm a little disappointed that the aftermarket hasn't taken more advantage of it. A lot of the mods out there are superficial, cosmetic, and external. Almost no one makes internal parts for them, except for maybe the actual trigger. Where are the tool steel sears, for example? How about an entirely CNC'd FCU built for precision fitment (e.g. for one, flat FCU slide rails for perfect slide fit)? How about a custom FCU + grip module designed to take Glock mags, if only to troll the internet. There probably couldn't be a better platform to enable this.

On the subject of safety, there are probably a number of modifications that could be done. Maybe double the height of the sear face. Also, double the width of the striker foot that engages the sear face. Overall creating a broader contact patch on the sear with more travel. Then, increase the length of trigger travel. I'd love to see the dual, little, sear springs replaced with a single and more substantial spring.

Also, I'd love to see a redesigned sear and trigger bar that physically prevents movement of the sear unless the trigger is pulled. Theoretically, in current form, inertia can still move the sear. This is true of many other striker-fired guns, such as the VP9. Whether it's an actual issue is debatable. Regardless, I'd like the peace of mind of a sear that can't physically move, similar in concept to Glock's drop safety ledge.

Also, redesign the striker housing and FPS so that the FPS is no longer a lever arm and is a more conventional block or cylinder that articulates linearly. How about a striker housing + striker with much tighter fitment since the stock unit feels a bit sloppy. Also a redesigned striker housing to eliminate that little striker return spring. Maybe none of this would do much of anything, but I think it would at least be interesting to see the aftermarket experiment with it. It's the possibilities like this that make me almost want to buy one of these again.

If you watch these videos he demonstrates how difficult it is to move the sear and shows even if it does, the gun won’t fire because of the striker safety. Also in theory the sear has a second ledge that’s supposed the catch the striker if it slips off.
14 mins first video
7 mins second video