Milwaukee Police to get new service weapons following accidental discharges & lawsuit

[Noah]

They can't. They've signed too many contracts with too many slow-moving bureaucracies to "quietly let it die." The product is writ in stone now. It'll get the full-on SA-80 treatment if it has to.

So true.

[Texaspoff]

Not my story to tell, so I won't go into details. A friend of mine had his 320 discharge in it's holster. Video review showed no fault of the shooter.

Please post the video. I'm not being abrasive in any way, I really want to see the video. The problem is, unlike the drop fire issue where it was easily repeatable and numerous videos made, not one single viable and credible video has surfaced of a 320 sitting in a holster, firing by itself with no outside influences.

With so many 320 in circulation in the competition circuit, why hasn't a video shown up? I familiar with the youtuber and his video of the aftermath of his supposed "fired on it's own" event that occurred in 2019, but I'm talking about seeing the event actually happen. I can tear up a pair of pants and claim anything I want happened as well.

I would just like irrefutable proof that the 320 does in fact have a problem, before I condemn the platform.





TXPO

[Navin Johnson]

There is no irrefutable truths unless the accused admits to it. Anybody could argue there was something in the holster and It got jiggled and pulled the trigger or that it’s a doctored video.

Even then many who don’t wanna believe it won’t believe it. We live in a world of videos so we think that’s the only truth and we don’t trust expert witnesses or people with great credibility because we didn’t see it.

Myself and a friend witnessed a coach videotaping girls inappropriately we brought the entire team together and explained what we saw. many would not believe us until they saw the video that we had taken of him doing it. we both had extensive backgrounds in sports coaching and our daughters had been members of this team for a number of years. The worst part about it was after showing the video to some of the parents they continue to send their kids to be coached by him.

Because of the attitude of “ if there isn’t video it didn’t happen” I’m not sure we could’ve got the team to leave this coach had we not had video. One of the most fucked up things I’ve ever seen.

[LockedBreech]

The reason I am selling my M17-B and will not further invest in the P320 platform even though I really like how mine shoots is simple: maybe it's nothing. But maybe it is. And when I have multiple entire series of Glock, M&P, Beretta, HK, and CZ pistols available to me that for certain do not have this going on, I could not justify exposing my lady, cat, and neighbors to the potential risk.

My assessment of risk would be very different if there was no option. Driving a car is a great example. Statistically a lot more likely to kill me than almost anything. But I have to do it, so I buckle up, drive defensively, have a tough Subaru with good crash ratings, etc.

But there are options. Lots of options. In that frame of reference, I can no longer justify or countenance the P320.

[boing]

I know there’s no small amount of apocrypha around the transition to Glocks back in the day, but could you have believed 20 years ago that Glock would be the safe harbor against ADs that any agency would retreat to?

[HCM]

It does give me some hesitation carrying a 365, justified or not.

Depends on how many of these are legitimate mechanical discharges where the trigger wasn't touched (which has yet to be demonstrated by a 365) and just how many of these recent P320 LEO ADs are an object or finger in a tussle getting into the large mouth of the WML OWB holster and pulling the light short trigger with no trigger safety. I'm sure that's at least some of the ADs and a P365 doesn't fall far from the tree there, though a non wml holster close to the body and very safe re holstering practices will help you a lot.

That sucks. It strange it seems isolated to the P320’s.

God knows there’s tons of 365’s out there.

It’s not “strange” at all.

The P365 series is not simply a “shrunken P320.” It uses a completely different design. The most significant differences being the FCU body uses a machined casting rather than stamped sheet metal and the 365 uses a conventional striker / firing pin safety design vs the unique one in the 320. In other words the 365 and 320 use different striker safety designs.

There are over a million P365 series guns in circulation and there have be ZERO mechanical “accidental” discharges.

Facts over feelings.

[HCM]

Please post the video. I'm not being abrasive in any way, I really want to see the video. The problem is, unlike the drop fire issue where it was easily repeatable and numerous videos made, not one single viable and credible video has surfaced of a 320 sitting in a holster, firing by itself with no outside influences.

With so many 320 in circulation in the competition circuit, why hasn't a video shown up? I familiar with the youtuber and his video of the aftermath of his supposed "fired on it's own" event that occurred in 2019, but I'm talking about seeing the event actually happen. I can tear up a pair of pants and claim anything I want happened as well.

I would just like irrefutable proof that the 320 does in fact have a problem, before I condemn the platform.

TXPO

This ^^^.

I was one of the first people talking about potential issues with the P320 prior to the CT SWAT lawsuit and the Omaha Outdoors video. Early 320s have real issues with impacts, sometimes even relatively minor impacts.

However there are zero validated examples of 320s “just going off in the holster”

Maybe I’m just jaded but for every validated AD with a 320 we’ve seen 5 or 10 negligent (operator error) discharges blamed on the gun. There is a lot of weird circumstances surrounding these issues such as the recent released “my 320 just went off at a match” video which actually occurred in 2019 etc..

The 320 is not the first fully tensioned striker gun to have AD/ND issues (e.g. the FN FNS) but all have involved impacts to include impacts while holstered.

[HCM]

They can't. They've signed too many contracts with too many slow-moving bureaucracies to "quietly let it die." The product is writ in stone now. It'll get the full-on SA-80 treatment if it has to.

Whether the prior issues with the P320 have been fixed or not, this ^^^ is true. Too many guns and too many contracts to turn the titanic now.

[Noah]

It’s not “strange” at all.

The P365 series is not simply a “shrunken P320.” It uses a completely different design. The most significant differences being the FCU body uses a machined casting rather than stamped sheet metal and the 365 uses a conventional striker / firing pin safety design vs the unique one in the 320. In other words the 365 and 320 use different striker safety designs.

There are over a million P365 series guns in circulation and there have be ZERO mechanical “accidental” discharges.

Facts over feelings.

I was specifically referring to the similarity of the P365 and P320 in regards to operator and foreign object induced ADs, not saying the 365 had demonstrated any risk of a mechanical AD without a trigger pull. I think thr move to a more traditional firing pin block was a plus.

[JonInWA]

I'll also add that to the best of my knowledge the P320 "uncommanded discharge" issues have all had to do with pre-June 2019 production P320s. HCM or Lwt16 can probably answer more authoritatively, but my thoughts are that the revised sear/sear spring retention method and the other spring that was eliminated have effectively resolved the concern-of course, assuming that effective manufacturing techniques and protocols (including pre-market stream QC) are followed.

Best, Jon