I love Glocks… or what’s old is new again.

[GJM]

Shannon is great. I did some private lessons with him years ago. I love his low-key approach.

Refusing to simply shift one's grip is one of those ridiculous nonsense things that people seem to arrive at as an excuse to either stick with, or choose, contrarian options.

I have heard that good design requires you to shift your grip to activate the mag release and slide stop, so those are not hit inadvertently.

[JCN]

Shannon is great. I did some private lessons with him years ago. I love his low-key approach.

Refusing to simply shift one's grip is one of those ridiculous nonsense things that people seem to arrive at as an excuse to either stick with, or choose, contrarian options.

That’s one of my favorite videos. Also Max Michel shifts his grip too.

I personally don’t mind an extended button on a Gen 3 and the Gen 4s work fine stock for me.

The Stoeger video also made me think of the various adjustable back straps considering his point one and two.

For instance, the HK VP pictured above has a back strap that will give more grip space for the support hand, but not affect the trigger reach. Conversely, the add on Glock back straps run all the way up the back strap and add to both grip space and trigger reach. Trigger reach may not be an issue with a Glock, but it is interesting to see how the various companies address the hand size issue.

I've also seen Langdon comment about his preference for the standard Beretta 92 grip shape over the Vertec grip because of space for support hand placement.

To add to that, something like a Shadow 2 with side grip panels options I spend a lot of time experimenting with grip panel contour and thickness to tailor to my preferences. I love that with a hot iron and heat gun I can do that do a Glock too.

If you had a small handed person with a Gen 3… they could spend 15 min with a Dremel and heat iron to make it fit or they could get a Gen 4 No backstrap. I don’t think either is wrong.

[awp_101]

I've also seen Langdon comment about his preference for the standard Beretta 92 grip shape over the Vertec grip because of space for support hand placement.

I thought I’d love the Vertec because stubby-ish fingers but it turns out my trigger finger is more prone to hit my support hand than with the traditional 92 grip.

[GJM]

With iron sights, you can get away with a fair amount of sight misalignment and still have somewhat of a usable sight picture. Put an RMR with BUIS on your Glock pistol, and you will quickly figure out if your grip and presentation are on, as it doesn't take much to make the dot go out of the display. Probably a good training combination, as a Holosun with its larger display, let's you get away with more.

A reasonable discussion is whether you modify the gun to you or you modify how you hold the pistol to work with it in stock form. I posted something from Hwansik a few months back that goes to holding the gun in such a way as to work with a stock grip shape. Of course if you are issued a pistol, you may not have the luxury of modifying it.

[JCN]

A reasonable discussion is whether you modify the gun to you or you modify how you hold the pistol to work with it in stock form. I posted something from Hwansik a few months back that goes to holding the gun in such a way as to work with a stock grip shape. Of course if you are issued a pistol, you may not have the luxury of modifying it.

Definitely agree it’s a reasonable discussion.

Check out this thread where I worked with Jenks with his duty gun.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....lding-With-JCN

There wasn’t an option to modify the gun, so that’s what we did.

There’s nothing wrong with a stock Glock grip. Nothing at all. Nothing wrong with the Glock factory slide release either but the grip I use for other guns has me covering the factory lever. Because I can, and it’s easy to do, I use a Kagworks release.

If I were LEO I would absolutely dedicate myself to a stock platform to what I was issued.

Nothing wrong with that. But I like similarity across platforms so if it’s easy to do, that’s what I’m going to do.

I didn’t leave my CO gun stock with regard to grip dimensions or trigger reach. I could have, but why?

So absolutely. Nothing wrong with stock and if so constrained, that’s what should be practiced.

[JTQ]

I have heard that good design requires you to shift your grip to activate the mag release and slide stop, so those are not hit inadvertently.

That's the argument I typically make.

The things you want to be able to reach with a shooting grip to make the gun fire, such as the trigger or a manual safety vs the things that can foul the gun (make it stop working) if they are within the reach of your shooting grip like the slide lock/slide release and mag release.

I get into most of these debates concerning folks coming to the 1911 and usually from a Glock, where they are looking for the biggest mag release they can find, extremely scooped grip panels, and extended slide stops, so that they can reach those controls without shifting the gun in their hand.

I point out that it's not a problem with their hand size or the gun as "most" folks need to shift the gun in their hand and you are usually better off without those outsized controls.

[JCN]

I point out that it's not a problem with their hand size or the gun as "most" folks need to shift the gun in their hand and you are usually better off without those outsized controls.

Can you clarify in what context you’re helping these people (duty gun, CCW classes, sport shooting).

The things I look for in a range toy or competition gun are going to be different than what is critical in a self defense or duty gun.

That’s why I think “tactical drills” with reloads aren’t good ideas on a time parameter because the things you want in real life (stiff mag release spring and a very positive slide lock) are the opposite of what goes on with auto forwarding bump loading IDPA type equipment.

[Rex G]

I have heard that good design requires you to shift your grip to activate the mag release and slide stop, so those are not hit inadvertently.

I remember reading this, and/or hearing this, multiple times, from the early Eighties, when I first started learning about handgunning.

[JTQ]

Can you clarify in what context you’re helping these people (duty gun, CCW classes, sport shooting).

I'm just a forum member with a lot of time as a 1911 user. I suspect these are just casual shooters I'm communicating with, which is what I am.

On 1911 forums or a generic gun forum a new member will come in and comment about their brand new 1911, and how great the trigger is, but they are looking for these extended controls, because "back at my old gun..." they want to be able to work the 1911 slide stop and mag release without shifting the gun in their hand.

While certainly there may be folks that have the appropriate hand size to reach the 1911 mag release and slide stop without shifting the gun in their hand, and aftermarket parts are available to help, I suspect the average hand cannot reach either the stock mag release or slide slide stop without shifting the gun in the hand. After thinking about this for many years, I've come to the conclusion it is not an ergonomic error that folks can't reach those controls. I believe Browning made the conscious effort to put both the mag release and slide release out of your reach so you don't foul the gun while shooting it.

I use the Shannon Smith video, since the Glock has one of the more "reachable" mag releases and slide stops, and while that is probably the gun folks have experience with reaching those two controls without shifting their grip, Smith comments, with a Glock in his hand, "there is basically no gun on the planet I can reach the mag release without shifting the gun in my grip." I'm trying to modify expectations. If you can reach those controls, fine, but the expectation would be that you can't, and you are not an outlier if you can't reach them, and your gun is not poorly designed.

[JonInWA]

No knock on you Jon but this is hurting my brain. It’s a personal thing so it’s all on me. What does a skilled shooter use in real-world environment/venue(s) for defensive purposes? I think you have good wisdom there but I’m just trying to get it.

Something that's established and properly vetted. Not an esoteric platform so tightly fitted and optimized for accuracy at the expense of other criteria (such as reliability, etc.) that it's only good to be used in a sterile environment. Something that there's quality, vetted cartridges for.

In other words, a Glock G19-or similar. You get the idea.

Best, Jon