Zeroing a 9mm PCC, Strange Ballistics.

[JCN]

@Chomps where you went wrong IMO is not correcting your impact when you got to 25 yards. There’s no point in going out further when 25 shows you that your 15 was wrong.

So at that point move it 6 clicks left and 6 clicks down.

For the rising to 100 with a slow bullet, check this out.



Basically if you’re pointed pretty extremely upwards rising to 100 is what you’ll see.

It’s like a mortar basically lol.

That’s a 7 yard zero.

Here is my recommendation:

For self defense distances, 25-50 yards is probably going to be the extreme maximum.

So keeping it fairly flat at that distance is good. And everything shy of that will be within 1-3 inches of the dot.

If you use the circle reticle of the AEMS, you can use the bottom of the circle to show you the max holdover.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Attachment 96165

IMO you should “zero” for your intended purpose, understanding that “zero” is your second intersection and what most people “zero” a pcc for is the initial intersection.

Based solely on that chart, what Rob is saying is to zero at 80 yards and then verify at 15 yards. Now, your group make look more like a pattern at that distance, but your POA should be in the center of that pattern. Then verify at the closer distances.

[Chomps]

Wow! It’s even worse than y’all explained. Just re-read the AEMS Manual before heading to the range. The zero adjustments for it are in ONE HALF MOA @100 yds! :0. So even with using a 25yd Zero,.. Im only moving my POA/POI By an EIGHTH of an inch per click. Which means @ my 10-15 yds zeros, I was probably only moving my poi by a mm or two per click. :facepalm:

So,… for my range session today,.. I’m gonna do my damnedest (…old eyes, arthritis & all) to get a good, dead on, balls accurate 25yd zero and then maybe next weekend I can go hit the hundred yard range. See what that does for my POI @85 & 100yds.

Depending on how that looks I might then try to adjust for a 50 yd zero.

I’ll post up the results here after.

[WobblyPossum]

Most red dots that aren’t meant to be mounted on handguns use 0.5 MOA/click adjustments. Understand that doesn’t just mean at 100y, that’s at any distance because because an MOA is a consistent relationship based on angles. Reread my longer post where I used 0.5 MOA/click as an example and it’ll have the distances each click is moving your POI at 15y, 25y, and 50y.

I like your idea of starting with the best 25y zero you can put together. Then you can true your windage at 50y like I explained in my previous post. You’ll be in a much better position than you were at the start of the thread.

[psalms144.1]

You've gotten all the advice you need already. I'll just add that my FM9 pistol (7" barrel) is zero'd at 50 yards, because that's as far as I can reasonably do a workable zero with that pistol/ammo combination. I then start at 12 yards to see offset - it's minimal for defensive purposes. The longest shot I could possibly conceive of having justification for in my situation is a laser-measured 107 yards, so I shot at that range and figured out my hold over.

The closer you zero, the more "mortar like" your ballistics will be. The further out you can stretch that zero, the "flatter" your PCC will shoot.

[Chomps]

Most red dots that aren’t meant to be mounted on handguns use 0.5 MOA/click adjustments. Understand that doesn’t just mean at 100y, that’s at any distance because because an MOA is a consistent relationship based on angles. Reread my longer post where I used 0.5 MOA/click as an example and it’ll have the distances each click is moving your POI at 15y, 25y, and 50y.

I like your idea of starting with the best 25y zero you can put together. Then you can true your windage at 50y like I explained in my previous post. You’ll be in a much better position than you were at the start of the thread.

Oh I definitely read & re-read your post,.. (along with ALL the others.)

I appreciate everyone’s feedback. Nothing I post in reply is intended, or should be construed as a “Yeah But..!” Anything I pist,.. if it reads that way? It was actually just me trying to be thorough, or clearer in my confusion/topic/question or information.

I’m far too new at this to be so arrogant as to “yeah but” guys with a lot more time and experience. 😉. To that I will only say, I use Sage dynamics advice When it comes to getting advice online,… “If it sounds good, give it a try. But verify with using your own DOPE! (… can you tell I just learned a new Acronym!) 🤣👍🏻

[Chomps]

So,.. been to the range and redid my carry ammo zero to 25yds. (Federal 147 HST) Took the “pistol” to the State Game Area and set up some targets @ roughly 40-45 yds and 50-56yds. (Assuming an appx 1yd stride)😉

As you all informed me would be the case,.. my POA/POI shift on targets at those distances was not significantly different than @25 yds. In fact my first shot @50 I assumed would be high so I aimed low. I was surprised when I hit right where I aimed. So I switched to a POA on my desired POI hold and pretty much hit where I aimed. My zero was good,.. my groups not so much. But that had more to do with my limited skills, experience and my eyesight. (Dot bloom & target focus, etc)

Still,.. I did pretty well @40y and 50.

In close it shoots a few inches low. (@7-8yds & closer.) But that’s really easy to adjust for. And even shouldered instead of benched I can get a fairly quick, well aimed, decently tight group at those distances.


I checked the new zero @ the indoor range /w my training ammo. Mostly Norma & Gecko 124 fmj. With the Norma there is definitely a POI shift of about 2.5”-3” inches high at 25 yards. I confirmed this with several targets and upon changing my POA hold accordingly, I was hitting where I wanted.

So once again,.. thanks to all for your excellent advice.

ps: I’ve ordered a Holosun HM3XT 3X magnifier for my AEMS red dot. Once it gets here I’ll hit the hundred yard range and see if my zero is still holding well at that distance.


Here’s Some Range pics just fer fun: 😁

(1st shots to confirm my initial 15 y zero was still High/Right.)


Adjusted Shots:








Oak Grove, State Game Area:
Silhouette @50-56yds, 3D Torso @40-45yds Weapon braced.




10 shots: 7 in 3” circle,.. 3 in da face. (1 in torso’s L eye)

[JCN]

@Chomps

When I zero, I turn my dot brightness way down.

[Chomps]

@Chomps

When I zero, I turn my dot brightness way down.

Yup,.. did that. Had it turned down just above the threshold where it disappears. Still booms a bit. When brighter? It appears comet like. Honestly, I think my distance rx may not be corrected enough for my astigmatism. (…then of course there’s my poor or non existent technique, etc. lol) 🤷🤣😉

Hard to tell from these low rez pics, but I had some 4”-6”-8” & 10” steel gongs out in that field also. Spread out Between 12-35yds. I did ok clanging them with the weapon shouldered. Not super impressive, but not a complete klutz either. 😁.

Steel shoot Video. …be gentle!🤣

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3yyJQF...ature=youtu.be

[Chomps]

So the 3X magnifier is pretty sweet. Definitely tighter groups @ distance with it than just the RD alone. Only seems limited by my p*%# poor distance vision. Looks pretty bad assed tho! 🤣



Checked & tuned my 25 yd Zero and then tested my FMP9 PCC & carry ammo @ distances from 15-100 yards. Here are the results.

1st 25 yd group:



After several L/R windage adjustments. Seems no matter how small an adjustment I make, I’m either a tad left or a tad to the right. (… Also Range bench rest was abused crap. LOTS of slop to overcome. Frustrating!) :facepalm:







Final 25 yd group:


Now at Various distances: (/w 3x)








It is apparent to me that there is a need to get some training AND do something to better correct my distance vision if I want to get consistently tighter groups at these greater distances. But for now,.. I am reasonably pleased with those 2.5” x 3” groups at 75 and 100 yards. 😎

[Edit:]
On the last image, the top 100 yard group, on the bottom four hits, my POA was the bull’s-eye. The one higher hit to the R, over the 100 notation, was me trying to compensate. 🤷*♂️


Thanks to all who took the time to comment and give suggestions/Advice! I Greatly appreciate it. Hopefully you didn’t find my post too basic & boring. 😁