How important is “wear whatever you want to work” to you?

[jh9]

Heard an interesting take on this from a dude named Josh Wolfe (co-founder of a company that funds/invests in Defense industry technology) on the War in the Rocks Podcast this week.

His take: if we see a deepening recession and we start seeing and more layoffs and job losses in white collar jobs we’ll see a return not just to the office, but to suits at work as a form of reverence and social proof to their gossipy neighbors that they still have jobs.

Bolded for emphasis. Based on his being a founder/VC money guy, that's probably more indicative of what he wants to happen than his accurately reading tea leaves. There are a lot of people in the owner/manager caste that are very, very angry at the current status quo. The proles have too much leverage, remote work is hell we need everyone At The Office, etc. Some combination of losing status and the inability to look important when nobody's at the office to see them and a loss of control by no longer being able to make everybody surrender hours of their day in a pointless commute so they can show off their bright plumage in front of an audience.

In a deepening recession where people want the status symbol of "still has a job" they can probably just continue to not get evicted / have the bank take the house while wearing shitty clothes.

[BillSWPA]

A few months ago I had a video interview with a patent examiner. I was in a suit, the examiner was in a T shirt. Even knowing in advance that the examiner would be in a T shirt, I would have still worn the suit to show that I take the meeting seriously and that I should be taken seriously. The examiner was quite good at his job despite the informal appearance. I ultimately had a successful result for that client.


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[farscott]

Disagree, gents. I’m a hell of a lot older than Rob (no idea about you, V) but a buttondown shirt is completely normal with a tie and two piece suit or blazer in the financial and insurance world, and has been for at least 75 years.

Same with me. When I started work in the 1980s, the uniform was Brooks Brothers suits with Brooks Brothers buttondown Oxford blue or white shirts. No pink, no stripes, and no patterns on the shirt. No loud ties. The only exception was the design team (the actual people who determined how the vehicle was styled) were allowed to wear Italian suits. Everyone else wore Brooks Brothers. There were few women other than secretaries (long before we used the term, "administrative assistant"), but women wore dresses. Period. End of story. This was one of the Big Three. New employees were sent to Brooks Brothers with instructions to tell the salesman your employer and a clothing allowance to get started.

And every office had a place to hang your coat and another for your jacket. And you wore your jacket if you left your office area for a meeting. I had to put on my jacket to get a cup of coffee as coffee was only available in the next building over at the cafeteria. I remember one colleague caught hell for having coffee on his white buttondown shirt. This was before the start of business casual. Until about 1995, I had twenty-five (five weeks worth of) suits and shirts in my closet, and every one was from Brooks Brothers, all made to measure. Shoes were Allen Edmonds or Florsheims. No slip-ons and no tassels. Every item had to be made in the USA.

When we started going to business casual, we had multiple page letters (there was no email other than PROFS, an old IBM system) on blue paper (VP and above only allowed to use) explaining what was allowed and what was not. It started as Fridays-only, and you had to pay (donate to an approved charity via payroll deduction) to be allowed to wear business casual. Then the requirement to pay to opt in was dropped. Then it went to any day of the week that you had no meetings. Then it went to everyday.

The other thing from that time was formal wear was not a suit. Formal wear for men meant black tie or white tie depending upon the time of day and the event if the invitation specified. I still have my two tuxedos from that time even though I have not worn either for years.