Police Duty pistol firearms T&E procedure, COF

[AMC]

We have already had all these conversations.

All the T&E guns are in hand, we just have to test them

Does your agency already issue Glocks? If so, I kinda agree with @BehindBlueI's that hitting the easy button on this is a no brainer. Now that the Acro-Footprint Glock 45 is available to agencies (or will be shortly), it's even more of a go-to for Glock agencies. And I'm not even a Glock guy.

As for a T&E process or form for you guys, i'm sorry I can't offer anything there. I just don't think you could get any useful data from that little ammo with that small a test group. If you were able to spread that out to a cross section of shooters, say 100 rounds each, and have them shoot some challenging, measurable exercises that included manipulation skills, then you might get more useful data. And have the shooters also rate their impressions on things like ergonomics and compare it to the shoot results.

I know you're not calling the shots, and believe me I feel your pain. Everybody and their uncle is gonna have an opinion, and will tell you why you're wrong. Or maybe tell everybody else behind your back why you're wrong. I am so glad not to be dealing with that crap anymore, and to only be picking guns and holsters for myself.

[msstate56]

"No plate" type optic mounting is pretty much a requirement. Now that Glock will mill direct, I do like that option.

I'm definitely going to see if I can bring in a few, struggling shooters to see how they perform with each as well.

[msstate56]

I came up with something. I’ll at least have a standard procedure for each pistol/optic combo. Thanks.

[Magsz]

I came up with something. I’ll at least have a standard procedure for each pistol/optic combo. Thanks.

What pistols are you testing if you don't mind me asking?

Also, what optics? My agency issued Red Dot equipped 17's last year. We went with the MOS system and Trijicon RMR's.

In 2022, if you have the option of avoiding the use of a plate, take it. If you have the option of selecting a closed emitter sight, take it.

As far as the testing of the pistols go, I would spend the vast majority of those 800 rounds shooting one handed, specifically weak hand. Most pistols will show their true colors when they're not properly supported. Some deal with this better than others and if you want to present something to the higher ups as far as what pistol might be quantifiably better, this is a decent way to weed out the wheat from the chaff.

Keep us updated on your progress. I hope it all works out well.

[LockedBreech]

I think we were closer to 5k per pistol, and SWAT specific testing went into 10k+ range.

Realistically we could have done this though:

Look at a brochure of a bunch of pistols.
Buy Glocks.

And probably have skipped brochures stage. Glock isn't the only game in town, but we already had the leather and the trained armorers. Nothing else was better, or better enough to warrant the logistics attached of switching. We're still issuing 17Ms, but likely going to gen 5 MOS at some point in the future. Maybe gen 6 by the time the general order actually gets approved...

A generally pretty squared away agency where I'm at has done basically this the past decade

1.) Glocks for 5 years
2.) M&Ps for 2 years. Nah.
3.) Back to Glocks for 5 years.
4.) Sigs for 2 years with the flat Pro trigger. Nah.
5.) Back to Glocks.

Does seem like a trend develops in the case of agency use.

[Lon]

A generally pretty squared away agency where I'm at has done basically this the past decade

1.) Glocks for 5 years
2.) M&Ps for 2 years. Nah.
3.) Back to Glocks for 5 years.
4.) Sigs for 2 years with the flat Pro trigger. Nah.
5.) Back to Glocks.

Does seem like a trend develops in the case of agency use.

If I was paying those bills I’d have some hard questions for the Police Chief and his command staff.

[TGS]

If I was paying those bills I’d have some hard questions for the Police Chief and his command staff.

Even if I was a cop there I'd be pissed off. That's a lot of money in extra mags, accessories, and holsters that I'd have to constantly waste on new guns.

[LockedBreech]

If I was paying those bills I’d have some hard questions for the Police Chief and his command staff.

Even if I was a cop there I'd be pissed off. That's a lot of money in extra mags, accessories, and holsters that I'd have to constantly waste on new guns.

The discontent is definitely there.

The first switch, Glock Gen 3 22s to Smith M&P40 Gen 1s, was legit. The Gen 3 22s started to have their weapon mounted light issues.

The second switch, back to Glock 35 Gen 4s, was justified albeit somewhat less so. The agency is not small but is not especially large (think 300 sworn) and they could not get their regional customer service rep to get back to them on a timely basis when issues did come up. The Glock rep, as I understand it, had always been extremely responsive.

The third switch, to P320 Pros, was entirely unjustified in my opinion. They were switching to 9mms but there was no reason not to just lateral into 9mm Glocks. The holsters would have even matched because Gen 4 was the option. I think it was Cool New Gun syndrome for sure.

The most recent switch was due to a pair of ND incidents with the P320 Pro trigger that occurred in rapid succession. No lives lost, nobody shot, but enough to give brass the willies. Seems like switching to non-Pro trigger P320s might have been a more reasonable option that Sig might have been able to do for free or cheap.

The current new issue is Glock 45 9mms. I think they ought to stick with that for about twenty years to average out the waste of the P320 switch and because it's a great platform they have the institutional knowledge to learn and train well.

[msstate56]

The discontent is definitely there.

The first switch, Glock Gen 3 22s to Smith M&P40 Gen 1s, was legit. The Gen 3 22s started to have their weapon mounted light issues.

The second switch, back to Glock 35 Gen 4s, was justified albeit somewhat less so. The agency is not small but is not especially large (think 300 sworn) and they could not get their regional customer service rep to get back to them on a timely basis when issues did come up. The Glock rep, as I understand it, had always been extremely responsive.

The third switch, to P320 Pros, was entirely unjustified in my opinion. They were switching to 9mms but there was no reason not to just lateral into 9mm Glocks. The holsters would have even matched because Gen 4 was the option. I think it was Cool New Gun syndrome for sure.

The most recent switch was due to a pair of ND incidents with the P320 Pro trigger that occurred in rapid succession. No lives lost, nobody shot, but enough to give brass the willies. Seems like switching to non-Pro trigger P320s might have been a more reasonable option that Sig might have been able to do for free or cheap.

The current new issue is Glock 45 9mms. I think they ought to stick with that for about twenty years to average out the waste of the P320 switch and because it's a great platform they have the institutional knowledge to learn and train well.

You sure you don’t work with me?

[LockedBreech]

You sure you don’t work with me?

Afraid not, I'm out west, bur sorry to hear y'all have ridden the same gun carousel.