RFI: 1st hunting rifle

[Lost River]

I know a lot of people hate brakes but the less recoil a rifle has the better a person shoots. The simple fact is that brakes work. My oldest kiddo when she did not yet weigh 100 pounds was shooting full power .308 hunting loads, (155 Lapua Scenar) the same loads I use, in her rifle that was equipped with a brake. I simply had her double up on the ear pro during practice.

She would wear both plugs and muffs at practice, the slip in ear plugs when it was time to shoot deer and elk. After shooting multiple animals I asked her about stepping up from the 6mm Remington she used on her first deer to the .308 with a muzzle brake, and she said she could not tell the difference. She was very tall and scrawny and the recoil did not bother her in the least.


She popped this doe at a couple hundred yards never paid the recoil any notice at all.

Her and her grandpa:


They are simply effective.

This was her 2nd elk, and I think she may have been 110 at tops.




Both of the above animals were shot with the .308 155 Scenar loads, btw.

.308s are very effective on elk, and I recommend them frequently to people. A lot of times I recommend the 308 over the 30-06 simply due to ammo. The majority of 30-06 factory ammo is under-loaded, due to all the old 30-06 rifles out there, some of which are over 100 years old. I have had .308 and 30-06 factory ammo of the same projectile weight, in rifles of same barrel length and had the .308 have a higher velocity.

However some of the newer ammo, like Hornady's ELD line is at least putting out some decent numbers and that is why I suggested that load and the link above. I really consider the 30-06 a handloader's cartridge if you expect it to perform to its highest potential, but at least now lately Hornady is putting out some ammo that is reasonable in performance and price.

The Tikka .308 is really an amazing platform, but it takes a knowledgeable handloader to take full advantage of its potential. Due to the T3s being all built on the same action, you can shoot your regular all around155 Scenar hunting load and then switch to 220 Nosler Partitions, long loaded, or Hornady 212 ELD-Ms long loaded, with just a couple of easy mods to the rifle. But again, that is not a factory turn-key solution.

[Lost River]

One thing I will mention now.


All over the net there is LOTS of discussion about 600, 700, 800 yard and beyond shooting at elk (and other animals). Many times brand new hunters say that they intend to keep their shots limited to 600 yards or whatever.

600 yards, or even 500 yards is an extremely long distance. So is 400 yards, when it comes to precise placement of a bullet. If you cannot shoot 6 out of 6 shots onto an 8 inch paper plate from field positions, during practice, then don't do it in the field.

Pretty much every single hunter I have ever seen that has asked me to take them out and give them pointers or a day long lesson has grossly, and I mean grossly over estimated their skill.

Plus better than 80% did not have a rifle that hit where they said or thought it would. If I asked where the rifle was zeroed, or asked them to confirm zero before training would begin, almost every one could not put 3 for 3 into a 1.5" bullseye. The actual bullseye.

Know your equipment, and know your ability. Your actual ability.


This rifle, the T3 .308 with 155 Scenars topped with the 10X NF scope is a true .5 MOA rifle in terms of mechanical accuracy.



That said, I have to be very well practiced, and used absolute perfect fundamentals with such a lightweight rifle to even get 1 MOA under field conditions in perfect weather.

When the weather is like this:



The wind is blowing hard, it is below zero, my fingers are numb, and I am piled up in clothes, even though I am carrying a rifle capable of .5 moa mechanical accuracy, due to my own physical condition and environmental conditions, realistically, I can expect to shoot about 2-2.5 moa.

That means at 300 yards, I am honestly likely to produce a group of 7.5". In such difficult conditions, that may be my max range with numb fingers, if I expect to make a good clean kill shot on an elk.






Yes, I shoot elk at extended distances with my little .308. But I know my limitations, and I only take high probability shots. I pass up a LOT of shots as well.


These are hard to see as it was below zero and my camera was not focusing well. These elk were on a high ridge. From what I read on the net, a lot of guys would have shot at these. I simply shot them with my camera.







I think they rely of "hope" as their strategy and the results are wounded animals that never get talked about. So again. Use the paper plate method. 6 for 6 from field positions. When you can do that you will know you are ready, and it will help you build confidence as well.

Hope this helps.

[entropy]

Another huge fan of the .308.

Very versatile, either in factory loads or hand loading. Sheels/BassPro/Cabelas usually has a pretty large variety on the shelf.

Ditto also on the brake. When I started to learn precision shooting, my platform was a R700 MilSpec with a Witt muzzle brake. Still have both. It allowed me to concentrate on the basics in the beginning.

Both sons’ now have .308 Savage bolt guns as their primary tools. I ended up developing a load common to each of them that is adequate for anything any of us would likely hunt.


Lost River:

Could only “Like” once. If I could hit the button a thousand times...I would.


Your second post above:

I’ve never hunted in terrain like that. Maybe one day before my time is done. All said, everyone is a “600-700yd” shot...until it’s actually time to do it. It’s like everything else with guys...size is greatly exaggerated. What I see in the upper Midwest is that most guys struggle even at 150.

[ccmdfd]

The Tikka .308 is really an amazing platform, but it takes a knowledgeable handloader to take full advantage of its potential. Due to the T3s being all built on the same action, you can shoot your regular all around155 Scenar hunting load and then switch to 220 Nosler Partitions, long loaded, or Hornady 212 ELD-Ms long loaded, with just a couple of easy mods to the rifle. But again, that is not a factory turn-key solution.

Would love to hear more on those mods.

[BK14]

Even the Tikka T3 in 6.5 Manbun I have used on the last couple elk

Typing this, currently rocking a manbun, so take it with a grain of salt. I’m looking at doing my first bolt gun, as a crossover capable of playing with some precision/distance stuff, as well as getting my feet wet in hunting, eventually hoping for an elk hunt.

I was planning on going with a Tikka in 6.5CM. I’ve heard debates all over. In your opinion, is the 6.5CM a viable elk rifle assuming a good ELD round and proper shot placement?

[GJM]

Typing this, currently rocking a manbun, so take it with a grain of salt. I’m looking at doing my first bolt gun, as a crossover capable of playing with some precision/distance stuff, as well as getting my feet wet in hunting, eventually hoping for an elk hunt.

I was planning on going with a Tikka in 6.5CM. I’ve heard debates all over. In your opinion, is the 6.5CM a viable elk rifle assuming a good ELD round and proper shot placement?

Proper placement or perfect placement? Karamojo Bell shot 1,011 elephant, almost all bulls, and most with a small caliber rifle, perfectly placing the bullet. There are things Lost River can get away with because of his experience and the nature of his hunting that less experienced hunters can't do, or shouldn't do. On a guided hunt, between weather and logistics, you might get one chance, right now, to make a shot on a nice bull. The bull might be on a ridge, 400 yards away, standing at an imperfect angle. At that point, you need to decide whether you want every advantage, or you are willing to pass, perhaps losing your opportunity to harvest an elk.

I have heard of plenty of elk running off after being shot poorly with magnum calibers. I have also heard stories of elk shot well with 6.5 CM and PRC, and never being found. I would take .308 on elk over 6.5 CM all day long, even if I had to limit my range with .308.

[pyrotechnic]

You are going to be way ahead with a rifle in 6.5 creed or .308 that you have put a couple cases of ammo through than a magnum you shoot little due to ammo cost /availability and recoil. Even a 308 in a light weight hunting rifle isn't pleasant to shoot for a practice session without it being braked. If you step up into the magnum range I suggest a second rifle in .223 or another small caliber to train with consistently.

For me personally the single rifle solution would be a tikka t3 lite in 6.5 creedmoor with something like the nightforce NXS 2.5-10. Can be carried around the mountains and recoil will be light enough for decent practice sessions even when unbraked.

[LJP]

Not sure I have much to add… but here goes my $0.02. OP, it almost seems that you have two counter goals. First hunting rifle and elk hunt don’t necessarily go together. At any rate, I have a Browning AB3 Micro in 6.5 CM that I have taken a few deer and a hog with. I love the rifle. Easy peasy to shoot. I have a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 on it, although I typically leave it set around 6x. While I think the 6.5 CM is probably sufficient for elk, if I ever get the chance to go out west, I will take either my .30-06 with heavy for caliber projectiles or I’ll invest in a 300 Win Mag.

What size is your son? I am short statured, and in my limited experience, having a rifle with a proper stock with proper LOP is key. I would look for a youth stock. As Jeff Cooper wrote long ago, a tall shooter can easily use a short stock, but the opposite is not true.

[KneeShot]

Tikka!

In regards to recoil - from my experience individual rifles will feel different. Prior to moose hunting this year I attempted to install a Trigger Tech drop in trigger into my Remington 700BDL 7mm Rem Mag. No joy. Last minute I bought a Tikka T3xi (Cabela’s addition) in the same caliber.

The Tikka’s recoil is noticeably less on this individual rifle. The BDL was not enjoyable to shoot. It could have been the miserable trigger, that made me anticipate the recoil. I also had a Remington 700 LTR in 308. I think the Tikka also recoils less than that rifle.

I’ve wanted a Tikka for years, and Iam really happy with it. The weight, balance, and swing, are right for me. Great out of the box trigger.

Eventually I’d like to try out the Tikka T3x 308 youth model. It has a shorter length of pull. I’m 5’6”, and it might work well for my kids ages 14, 12 and 11.

The advice from @lostRiver is gold. I always enjoy his knowledge and experience.

I’m not a huge hunter, or bolt gun guy. I’ve harvested a few white tail, 1 black bear, 1 Caribou and this year I finally got the Bull Moose. The Moose was 170yds. I was standing, off hand, 25-30 degree down hill angle. Broke his spine, through a lung and out the ribs. If he was around 200yds I’d I’ve liked to use a rest or shooting sticks. I’d be comfortable at 300yds in the prone. Anything past 300 will require a lot more practice - in accordance w/ LostRiver’s paper plate training regiment.

BTW - Wild West guns successfully installed the Trigger Tech into the BDL, the OEM trigger pin needed some polishing. I’ve never been I love w/ that rifle but have kept it for sentimental reasons.

Obligatory moose and Tikka pic;

[Maca]

Thanks for all the replies.

What’s a good rifle weight for a balance of shootability and carryability? Not including glass.

Looking at Christensen and Tikka primarily. Thought I’d like the benelli Lupo but was disappointed by the shape of the handguard. Christensen ridgeline and mesa both felt great. Tikka felt “cheaper” but everyone has nice things to say about it.

Is carbon fiber barrel used in the ridgeline worth the premium over the mesa? FFT over standard stock?

Thanks again for all the feedback.