Crime scene outer perimeter access control

[BehindBlueI's]

On some massive scenes we have a ton of non-uniformed and often unsworn personnel who need access to the outer layer of the crime scene (like where incident command is, not the inner perimeter that's the actual crime scene or the ongoing event). As an example, a fatal OIS will have chaplains, victim's assistance, POST (who are sworn but may be responding in civilian attire), FOP reps, attorneys, city legal, rehab van (the guys with snacks and drinks), crime lab, and investigators. Some of those groups do not wear a set dress code, especially if responding from an off duty capacity as an "on call".

PMs are fine, but how are you controlling access to large scenes? Officers are hesitant to challenge someone who's already in the perimeter but I know I've seen people inside that don't need to be. Twice now I've brought this up in AARs and now I'm trying to write a proposal to fix our general orders and our MOU with civilian partners.

I'm thinking of a lanyard system with two colors of lanyards, one that allows access to outer perimeter and one that allows access to the inner perimeter, for non-uniformed non-sworn personnel. My thinking is lanyards can be over any type of clothing, aren't covered if you need to put on a rain coat, can be seen from a distance, and are cheap to purchase and provide. We don't want to issue badges to non-sworn personnel and volunteers.

GO would be amended for crime scene management that any officer is responsible for challenging someone without a lanyard and directing them to the command post to attain one before allowing them under the tape anywhere else.

I'd be interested in how everyone else is managing major scenes. Keep in mind I'm talking about dozens of civilians on a scene, and on a department that's way too big for everyone to know everyone else even before you get to other city agencies, volunteers, supporting departments, etc. This must also allow for "borrowed" personnel, like a fire dept chaplain, to conform.

[SiriusBlunder]

On some massive scenes we have a ton of non-uniformed and often unsworn personnel who need access to the outer layer of the crime scene (like where incident command is, not the inner perimeter that's the actual crime scene or the ongoing event). As an example, a fatal OIS will have chaplains, victim's assistance, POST (who are sworn but may be responding in civilian attire), FOP reps, attorneys, city legal, rehab van (the guys with snacks and drinks), crime lab, and investigators. Some of those groups do not wear a set dress code, especially if responding from an off duty capacity as an "on call".

PMs are fine, but how are you controlling access to large scenes? Officers are hesitant to challenge someone who's already in the perimeter but I know I've seen people inside that don't need to be. Twice now I've brought this up in AARs and now I'm trying to write a proposal to fix our general orders and our MOU with civilian partners.

I'm thinking of a lanyard system with two colors of lanyards, one that allows access to outer perimeter and one that allows access to the inner perimeter, for non-uniformed non-sworn personnel. My thinking is lanyards can be over any type of clothing, aren't covered if you need to put on a rain coat, can be seen from a distance, and are cheap to purchase and provide. We don't want to issue badges to non-sworn personnel and volunteers.

GO would be amended for crime scene management that any officer is responsible for challenging someone without a lanyard and directing them to the command post to attain one before allowing them under the tape anywhere else.

I'd be interested in how everyone else is managing major scenes. Keep in mind I'm talking about dozens of civilians on a scene, and on a department that's way too big for everyone to know everyone else even before you get to other city agencies, volunteers, supporting departments, etc. This must also allow for "borrowed" personnel, like a fire dept chaplain, to conform.

I have zero LEO experience, but 25+ years in the trade-show/conference/events industry that has similar access control requirements so maybe this will help.

I think your solution will depend on budget and type of work these folks will be doing.

The most general solution is wrist-bands. This works for manual labor/blue collar folks and the white-collar folks. A lanyard/badge is more likely to get in some-ones way when bending over, carrying things, etc,

Budget are some water resistant ones like this:



This issue with this type is they are easily cut off and passed around. Not sure if this type of fraud is an issue for you. (Note: This band was to indicate I had passed COVID testing and was meant to be worn all week. I don't like showering/sleeping with them so I cut it off carefully on the first night and taped it back on the rest of the days. Other folks were getting them, cutting them off, and giving them to their non-vaccinated friends to get them in).

A more secure, but costly, wristband solution is something like this:

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...ristbands-Blue

With either type, you can do "color of the day" to swap things up from scene-to-scene and have different colors grant different level of access. All depends on how many colors you want to stock.

When you say "lanyard" do you mean a colored lanyard with a colored badge? I think a plain lanyard would flop around too much, not to mention the clips they all come with (that I've seen) catching on clothes, etc.

I could see colored lanyards and colored plastic badges like this:



This event had 3 levels of access. "STAFF" was highest, "EXHIBITOR" next, "ATTENDEE" was lowest (never had one). Since the security guards at most venues aren't always the brightest, it was easier for me to have both a STAFF and EXHIBITOR one than to explain a bunch of rules. All badges were printed with bar codes on the back and we scanned them out for accountability and fraud detection.

This approach requires producing and stocking the different types of badges and some knowledge/management of quantities needed.

An easier solution to manage is blank plastic badges and then a colored sticker (low temperature/water resistant) on the front and back where the different colors of stickers indicated access level.

For lanyards, I always recommend to my clients getting the more expensive ones with a "break away" feature to limit liability exposure.

In the TS industry, we mix up colors every day and from event to event to try and cut down on fraud. I could see this maybe being in issue for you by folks that want to gain access and film for social media, a la "Nightcrawler", but I have no clue if that happens in really life.

[jnc36rcpd]

My first thought would be a double perimeter. One roll of tape would contain the perimeter where command staff, peer support, legal representation, and others may need to be. A second and smaller perimeter would contain the actual crime scene where only detectives and forensic science people would be allowed. This would preferably be marked by a different color tape. In addition to the practical aspects of this protocol, it allows self-important people to duch under the tape so they can be seen.

As to the actual crime scene, I'd suggest a log of everyone who enters (which, of course, should be done anyway) coupled with a mention that they will likely be summonsed to court. If your forensics people like the rubber booties, gloving up, and wearing protective suits, your crime scene tourists should as well. Not only does that make good sense, it will discourage sightseeing at the scene.

Of course, this may not be practical if your crime scene involves something like a vehicle or foot pursuit, but it may work for most large crime scenes.

[BehindBlueI's]

My first thought would be a double perimeter. One roll of tape would contain the perimeter where command staff, peer support, legal representation, and others may need to be. A second and smaller perimeter would contain the actual crime scene where only detectives and forensic science people would be allowed.

Sure, we do all that with the exception of different colored tape. My question is strictly reference that outer perimeter where all "the others" go:

On some massive scenes we have a ton of non-uniformed and often unsworn personnel who need access to the outer layer of the crime scene (like where incident command is, not the inner perimeter that's the actual crime scene or the ongoing event).

[jnc36rcpd]

That said, the lanyard idea seems workable. Someone would have to issue lanyards, of course. I considered the idea of permanently issuing them to some positions but that raises the risk that someone not assigned to a particular incident might show up as a tourist. For instance, unless a criminalist is actually doing criminalistics, you don't want them entering your scene to visit colleagues or look at an interesting murder.

I also wonder if placing the command post farther away might help from the processing viewpoint. The command officials and CP detail should not have hangers on in and around the command post, but that is a different issue than a crime scene tourist who may destroy evidence and complicate investigation or trial. On one occasion, I was on the scene of a unknown cause death on above ground subway tracks. While not practical for most agencies, the Metro Transit Police had two command vehicles on scene. One was the larger vehicle located at the nearest Metro station while the smaller was a forward command post located much closer to the death scene (and staffed by much lower ranking people who were doing actual work).

[BehindBlueI's]

That said, the lanyard idea seems workable. Someone would have to issue lanyards, of course. I considered the idea of permanently issuing them to some positions but that raises the risk that someone not assigned to a particular incident might show up as a tourist. For instance, unless a criminalist is actually doing criminalistics, you don't want them entering your scene to visit colleagues or look at an interesting murder.

I also wonder if placing the command post farther away might help from the processing viewpoint. The command officials and CP detail should not have hangers on in and around the command post, but that is a different issue than a crime scene tourist who may destroy evidence and complicate investigation or trial. On one occasion, I was on the scene of a unknown cause death on above ground subway tracks. While not practical for most agencies, the Metro Transit Police had two command vehicles on scene. One was the larger vehicle located at the nearest Metro station while the smaller was a forward command post located much closer to the death scene (and staffed by much lower ranking people who were doing actual work).

We have a mobile comm van (van undersells it, it's an RV) that rolls to the scenes I'm discussing. My idea is to have the lanyards in the comm van and make it part of the incident commander's responsibilities. Which means I'd actually be making policy for Operations, or at least recommending it. Luckily my Cpt and Cmmdr both agree this is a problem to solve, so we'll see.

[Erik]

If the lanyard concept makes sense, and they are supposed to be handed out on scene, stickers that have to be applied in a visible location might work also and you could print them in house instead of having to order them. You could probably even print them on scene and have them dated, if the mobile command center has a printer.

[BehindBlueI's]

If the lanyard concept makes sense, and they are supposed to be handed out on scene, stickers that have to be applied in a visible location might work also and you could print them in house instead of having to order them. You could probably even print them on scene and have them dated, if the mobile command center has a printer.

I don't want to complicate it any more than need be. My idea is the scribe grabs the bag o' lanyards and hands them out as people get signed in to the outer perimeter then they hand them back in when they sign out. Which, technically, nobody other than Tac Ops does right now. Everyone else just leaves, we're not afraid we'll leave a chaplain behind.

I've got buy in from my chain of command, but this has to pass muster with Operations and Administration as well, and that's a tougher sell. Anything that's complicated or adds to manpower needs will get shot down by Ops. Anything that costs more than, say, a large McFlurry will get shot down by Admin. Which is why I'm asking how anyone else is doing it, to bolster odds of acceptance or to get ideas that fit those parameters.

[Erik]

My thought was that it might be cheaper and easier than lanyards in that you can print as many as you need on sticker sheets, so no special order from a vendor and you don't have to try and get them back. They use stickers like this at an area museum I'm a member of and it seems pretty effective. But this is far outside my area of, well, anything.

[Lost River]

Badgers.

A van load of badgers released on the outer perimeter will cut right down on the senior management walking around mucking up crime scenes, and the various non essential people who just plain should not be there.

Badgers.

The redheaded ex-wives of the animal kingdom.