Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

  1. #1
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    TEXAS !

    Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/ban-gu...ge-2022-10-13/

    Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

    Oct 13 (Reuters) - A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that a federal ban on possessing a gun with its serial number removed is unconstitutional, the first such ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court dramatically expanded gun rights in June.

    U.S. District Judge Joseph Goodwin in Charleston on Wednesday found that the law was not consistent with the United States' "historical tradition of firearm regulation," the new standard laid out by the Supreme Court in its landmark ruling.

    The decision came in a criminal case charging a man, Randy Price, with illegally possessing a gun with the serial number removed that was found in his car. The judge dismissed that charge, though Price is still charged with illegally possessing the gun after being convicted of previous felonies.

    Price's lawyer, Lex Coleman, called the decision "thoughtful, measured and accurate." A spokesperson for the office of U.S. Attorney William Thompson in Charleston, which is prosecuting the case, said the office was "reviewing the ruling and assessing options."

    The federal law in question prohibits anyone from transporting a gun with the serial number removed across state lines, or from possessing such a gun if it has ever been transported across state lines.

    Serial numbers, first required by the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, are intended to prevent illegal gun sales and make it easier to solve crimes by allowing individual guns to be traced.

    Price argued that the law is unconstitutional in light of the Supreme Court's June 24 ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc v. Bruen. That ruling held that under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the government cannot restrict the right to possess firearms unless the restriction is consistent with historical tradition.

    Bruen said serial numbers were not required when the Second Amendment was adopted in 1791, and were not widely used until 1968, putting them outside that tradition.


  2. #2
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Escapee from the SF Bay Area now living on the Front Range of Colorado.
    Interesting.

    I am wondering how much the serial numbers help in the real world? Other than being able to identify stolen property and return it to its rightful owner, is not having a serial numbered gun really all that useful in trying bad people to crimes or is it more one of those kinds of charges that are stacked on once you get a bad guy in custody?

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    TEXAS !
    Quote Originally Posted by Suvorov View Post
    Interesting.

    I am wondering how much the serial numbers help in the real world? Other than being able to identify stolen property and return it to its rightful owner, is not having a serial numbered gun really all that useful in trying bad people to crimes or is it more one of those kinds of charges that are stacked on once you get a bad guy in custody?
    It’s useful in my experience.

    While you are probably thinking of stolen guns and serial numbers being run in NCIC and immediately identified as stolen, I’ve had several guns which did not pop in NCIC is stolen, but when traced back to the original owners were determined to be stolen. Sometimes the owners didn’t have serial numbers, or an incorrect serial number was entered. I’ve had a couple instances where people had gun stolen, and they showed the box with the serial number to responding police, who then wrote down the wrong number, such as an SKU number.

    I’ve also had cases where a subject was caught with a firearm in their vehicle, claimed it wasn’t theirs, and then we subsequently recovered the box for the firearm with the serial number on it from their bedroom in the residence. Aur milagro !

    In one case, we uncovered a previously unreported home invasion robbery. Original purchaser bought the gun legally, subsequently became a prohibited person but retained gun. They then had the gun stolen in a home invasion robbery which occurred because the owner had failed to pay a drug debt. The suspect who stole the gun in the home invasion gave it to one of his girlfriends to pawn so she could buy clothes for her kids during a back to school tax free weekend. The girlfriend redeemed the gun from the pawnshop and it was then sold to the suspect we recovered it from.

    Despite being a gentleman to his single mama hook ups, the suspect from the home invasion subsequently shot two people in the parking lot of a BYOB all nude strip club. That particular club was notorious for trafficking, underage girls, and that shooting was the straw that broke the camels back and finally got the place shut down.
    Last edited by HCM; 10-14-2022 at 12:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Member TGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Back in northern Virginia
    I don't see this as a particularly well-reasoned decision that will stand as consistent with a multitude of other long standing SCOTUS opinions, but rather a decision that was made in a vacuum as if no other SCOTUS opinion on the regulation of constitutional rights had ever been rendered.

    I would refrain from mutilating your firearms serial numbers for now, especially so if you live anywhere outside the Federal Southern District of West Virginia (remember, district precedents are not binding on other districts, and WV has two of them).
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #5
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by Suvorov View Post
    Interesting.

    I am wondering how much the serial numbers help in the real world? Other than being able to identify stolen property and return it to its rightful owner, is not having a serial numbered gun really all that useful in trying bad people to crimes or is it more one of those kinds of charges that are stacked on once you get a bad guy in custody?
    It's sometimes helpful in shooting investigations. Dude pitches gun and is found 30 minutes later, claims no knowledge of gun, trace shows his girlfriend is original purchaser. Or Sumdood is original purchaser, but sumdood says he sold it on armslist to another Sumdood with this phone number a few days ago, phone number goes to a burner account used to set up a Facebook page that was used to set up a robbery (which went bad) on Facebook marketplace and other evidence ties shooter to that account.

    Tracing straw purchasers who are supplying criminal enterprises, the whole "Indiana to Chicago illegal gun route" is very real and funds criminal enterprises on both ends.

    Etc. It's not always useful, as there is no registry so tracing guns often results in dead ends as it's changed hands too many times or one link is uncooperative, but it is sometimes useful.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    It's sometimes helpful in shooting investigations. Dude pitches gun and is found 30 minutes later, claims no knowledge of gun, trace shows his girlfriend is original purchaser. Or Sumdood is original purchaser, but sumdood says he sold it on armslist to another Sumdood with this phone number a few days ago, phone number goes to a burner account used to set up a Facebook page that was used to set up a robbery (which went bad) on Facebook marketplace and other evidence ties shooter to that account.

    Tracing straw purchasers who are supplying criminal enterprises, the whole "Indiana to Chicago illegal gun route" is very real and funds criminal enterprises on both ends.

    Etc. It's not always useful, as there is no registry so tracing guns often results in dead ends as it's changed hands too many times or one link is uncooperative, but it is sometimes useful.
    So who are the original buyers when straw purchases are made. Does a straw purchase always result in a charge?
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
    The lunatics are running the asylum

  7. #7
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Escapee from the SF Bay Area now living on the Front Range of Colorado.
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I don't see this as a particularly well-reasoned decision that will stand as consistent with a multitude of other long standing SCOTUS opinions, but rather a decision that was made in a vacuum as if no other SCOTUS opinion on the regulation of constitutional rights had ever been rendered.

    I would refrain from mutilating your firearms serial numbers for now, especially so if you live anywhere outside the Federal Southern District of West Virginia (remember, district precedents are not binding on other districts, and WV has two of them).
    Damn, and I just ordered a new Dremel attachment! 😔

    To me this ruling seems peculiar because even as as a “half-orc, right wing Trump voting nut job who really does think the gov isn’t looking out for my best interests,” I don’t find the requirement than modern guns be serialized to be an infringement on the 2A. Especially when there are so many more egregious infringements on the books.

    I was curious about the real world effectiveness of tracing as my limited exposure to NCIS and Law And Order shows that gun registration leads them to the killer every time.
    Last edited by Suvorov; 10-14-2022 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    So who are the original buyers when straw purchases are made. Does a straw purchase always result in a charge?
    The original buyer in a straw purchase is the straw purchaser.

    Asking if a straw purchase always results in a charge is a bit like asking if driving without insurance always results in a ticket.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Français View Post
    The original buyer in a straw purchase is the straw purchaser.

    Asking if a straw purchase always results in a charge is a bit like asking if driving without insurance always results in a ticket.
    Im not a LEO. Im asking because baby mama selling guns was mentioned earlier and Im curious what types of people are making a straw purchase.
    Im also asking about the charges because I dont know. I was hoping for a bit more detailed reply than what you provided.
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
    The lunatics are running the asylum

  10. #10
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Im not a LEO. Im asking because baby mama selling guns was mentioned earlier and Im curious what types of people are making a straw purchase.
    Im also asking about the charges because I dont know. I was hoping for a bit more detailed reply than what you provided.

    What type varies, but for criminal enterprises it's often females or younger males who haven't gotten a prohibited person status yet. There's plenty of exceptions, though, parents, retirees, idiots in love, idiots making money, etc

    If they get charged varies wildly based on a host of factors. One guy/one gun crimes are rarely charged, but if it's a high profile case or particularly heinous (say the purchaser buys the gun for someone they know to be mentally ill and violent and that person then murders an entire household with toddlers, etc) then one guy/one gun cases get picked up. Criminal enterprise buyers (one guy/lots of guns/for profit or arming gang members) will get picked up. It's a lengthy and involved investigation, though, and there are more straw purchasers than available investigtors.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •