Good article series on how GM “went to shit”

[45dotACP]

I don't get the guys complaint about front wheel drive crossovers. Sure they aren't the car for him, but that's a huge amount of auto sales at the moment, and he does know the imports are building the same, right?

GM went to shit because of bean counters, as he said. Look at the Corvette. For decades it was a great car held back by a shit interior and, often, poor marketing. If you read about the development of different generations it was a constant battle to have Corvette specific parts, and you ended up with cheap ass switch gear in a relatively expensive vehicle. Also true on luxury cars. GM wanted the same buttons in a $15k car and a $50k car because it would save a nickel. The Corvette sold despite GM, not because of it.

Power initial quality, which is a different metric than reliability and is more about how much customers like their new car in the first 90 days, GM is doing real well comparatively:




The Silverado I drove yesterday, a 2022 ZR2, had an interior so nice I have to question who GM farmed out to design it and how they allowed themselves to build it. It's like they finally realized a few bucks in the part of the vehicle the owner sees and interacts with the most may up perceived value...

I'll say this, my brother's 06 Buick lacrosse has basically been bulletproof. He bought it with 60k miles for about 6k when he graduated college 4 years ago and it's got easily 120k on it now and aside from a small issue with his radiator which was easily and cheaply repaired, the thing just runs.

My dad drove a LeSabre for years and it got handed down to my sisters and it ultimately died at 290,000 miles.

I'm more of a hyundai/toyota guy but if my car blew up tomorrow and I had to buy a car with the contents of my emergency fund, it wouldn't be hard to get a good deal on a used Buick from the early twenty aughts or 2010s with less than 100k miles on it and expect it to just go and go.

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[TGS]

Which really sucks because the illogical lizard brain in me wants a Camaro so bad.

I don't think it's illogical.

Look, I grew up with the worst of the worst GM products in our family. My mom even had a Saturn SL2, probably one of the worst cars ever sold in America. I have a deeply ingrained bias from the 80s and 90s that American Car = White Trash.

With that said, there's no denying that the Camaro is one of the best sports cars for the money today, even widely regarded as being the best track car for the money that you can get. Getting a fun car because you like it isn't illogical, particularly when it's good at its role. Not everything needs to be the most fuel efficient, most reliable, most mundane A-to-B people mover in order to make sense. "I like it, and I'm happy when I drive it" is a perfectly logical reason to buy a sports car...and you should buy yourself a fucking Camaro.



Just don't turn into one of those people who buys a C8 Corvette and thinks they have a supercar when it can't even beat a Porsche with less horsepower on a circuit.

[jh9]

I have a deeply ingrained bias from the 80s and 90s that American Car = White Trash.

Not to speak for a couple good ol boys never meanin no harm but...



I kid, I kid; mostly

[TGS]

Not to speak for a couple good ol boys never meanin no harm but...



I kid, I kid; mostly

We had a Chevy pickup, a mid 80s T-bird, and a 4th/5th/6th gen (can't remember which) Buick Riviera with blue plush seats. All replaced by a Ford pickup, a Saturn SL1, and a Saturn SL2. My brothers first truck was a lowered Chevy S-10.

Read between the lines.

My family = white trash.

[jh9]

We had a Chevy pickup, a mid 80s T-bird, and a 4th/5th/6th gen (can't remember which) Buick Riviera with blue plush seats. All replaced by a Ford pickup, a Saturn SL1, and a Saturn SL2. My brothers first truck was a lowered Chevy S-10.

Read between the lines.

My family = white trash.

I just wanted to use that gif, mostly.

[BehindBlueI's]

I would truly love to buy American and support domestic auto manufacturing, but for the last 17 years I've owned two vehicles, both Japanese. Zero issues with either, for 17 years. The amount of friends and family I've had buy Chevys, Dodge, Jeep, etc. and have them shit the bed in that 17-year span is genuinely shocking. I can't support an inferior product.

Which really sucks because the illogical lizard brain in me wants a Camaro so bad.

The Camaros are great cars and have near zero reliability concerns. The LS motors are swapped into anything and everything for a reason. The only issue that crops up on 5th gen Camaros from time to time is the blend door breaks, which causes your HVAC to no longer select between AC and heat and is a giant PITA to fix (or an expensive fix to pay someone else for). It doesn't affect all of them, but is the closest thing to a endemic problem you see on Camaro forums.

Crash test results are great, and my real world observations are the same.

Ownership costs are low for the segment. Performance per dollar rate is nuts.

I could easily afford a newer/"better" car but I continue to absolutely love owning and driving my 2011 5th Gen.

[LockedBreech]

Getting a fun car because you like it isn't illogical, particularly when it's good at its role. Not everything needs to be the most fuel efficient, most reliable, most mundane A-to-B people mover in order to make sense. "I like it, and I'm happy when I drive it" is a perfectly logical reason to buy a sports car...and you should buy yourself a fucking Camaro.

The Camaros are great cars and have near zero reliability concerns.

You know, I've always said P-F is super enabling, but this has gotta be a new high.

I probably will when we buy a house and I can garage it. I promise I'll post pics.

[P30]

Lots of problems that you'd expect to see on a mid-80s American car.

On the other hand, I liked this car as a boy/teenager in the 80s:



'82 Firebird Trans Am. Dream car for us boys in those years. In reality, it was unreliable?

My current car - a little and lightweight Seat Ibiza SC, VW group - cost me 10,000 € new in 2009. Still running strong after 162,000 miles powered by its little 1.4 l engine (top speed 112 mph which it ran sometimes here on the autobahn).

PS:

New years eve '89 in Berlin, only a few weeks after the fall of the Berlin wall:



Note 3:20, that was close.

[Phil_PROC]

I've been a Toyota zealot for years due to their reliability. Daily drivers are appliances. Reliability is everything for appliances IMO.

[LockedBreech]

I've been a Toyota zealot for years due to their reliability. Daily drivers are appliances. Reliability is everything for appliances IMO.

That shit is how Subarus and Glocks eventually both got me.

There are a thousand other considerations to think about, but I trust them to work. That consideration counts for 99% of the weight in those applications.