Has the era of RDS Handguns fully arrived?

[HeavyDuty]

No one has suggested new shooters not learning irons.

But there Steve, how are quantifiable advantages to learning fundamentals with optics and adding irons as an intermediate skill.

I don’t mean they shouldn’t learn irons, I think that some will never need or want to learn. A little like the adults I’ve worked with that couldn’t read an analog clock without moving their lips, an older skill that is less important than it once was.

[HCM]

I don’t think we’re there yet simply because nothing with pistol-mounted optics has been standardized regarding actually mounting them onto pistols. We’ve got numerous top-down-screw style mounting footprints (RMR, Delta Point, Romeo, etc). There are two different horizontal screw/clamp rail style (ACRO and 509T). There are multiple footprints for the mini-optics like the Shield RMSc and Trijicon RMRcc. Every time someone comes out with a new optic, it seems like they come out with a proprietary footprint for it. Every firearm manufacturer seems to have their own optics-ready cut and plate system too. Until you can buy any handgun and any optic and securely attach them together with whatever came in their respective boxes, the way you can with pretty much any rifle with a 1913 style rail and pretty much any optic that comes with a 1913 compatible mount, we won’t be at the point where pistol-mounted optics are ubiquitous. I just want every slide to come from the factory machined for an ACRO-style footprint and for every optic to come from the factory with an ACRO-style mounting system.

That doesn’t exist for rifle optics either outside modern US/NATO military guns like ARs. Even then you still have carry handle adaptors or weaver uppers like the Dutch M16 variants.

We are only about 1/3 to 1/2 way there on pistols but we don’t have the US MIL and a GWOT driving innovation and standardization either.

[4RNR]

If good enough us good enough for you so be it but deriding being faster and /or more accurate is naive at best.

That's not what Im saying.

Faster and more accurate is better but it's judged against someone else in a game. That's the part I have no interest in...the game.

Like running. I want to be a little faster than before, I want to go a little further each time but I simply don't care if I come in last against another runner on a track. Doesn't mean want to just casually walk. I want to be able to squat X lbs more twice a month but I don't care if you beat me by squatting the same X lbs more each day.

I'm concerned about the guy shooting up the mall or the guy breaking in. Not the guy who just did a walk through of the challenge and is trying to run through it as fast as possible.


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[Irelander]

I think the RDS thing is super cool. Watching the technology development has been very interesting. Moore's law holds true. I has not adopted the RDS for a few reasons. While the tech is blossoming, my electronics career tells me not to bet my life on small mass produced, battery powered devices. They may work flawlessly for years but one cracked lead free solder joint, defective battery, or obstructed lens will ruin your day. One reason i like guns so much is that batteries and cicuits are not needed. Also the cost, for me, is prohibitive. Especially since my belove HK does not have a milled option. Lastly, i think they would make my concealed carry gun less concealable. I have trouble concealing my pistol as is. Im not looking to make its footprint bigger. I'd love to try out an RDS equipped pistol but i don't see myself going all in on that technology for my carry gun anytime soon. Thats just my $0.02. YMMV

[Default.mp3]

I'm concerned about the guy shooting up the mall or the guy breaking in. Not the guy who just did a walk through of the challenge and is trying to run through it as fast as possible.

Why would you not want an RDS for either of those situations? An RDS gives you not just far better accuracy (in fact, some would argue that an RDS can slow you down in closer ranges), but you also get way more information down range and thus you'll have better situational awareness, now that you're able to target focus. RDSes can also make dry practice far more efficient as you are much more able to see your wobble and flinches.

You can get a Holosun for the cost of a case of decent 9mm practice ammo. You can get an Aimpoint ACRO for the cost of two cases. You will likely gain way more ability with an RDS than you would with two cases of 9mm.

Remember, the popularization of slide-mounted RDSes didn't come from the competition world, but from its use in SOF units.

[Maca]

at 48, my eyes don't see a crisp front sight any more. So RDS on my carry gun is no longer an option for making quality hits at a distance on demand.

In fact, its one of the reasons I just added an offset RMR to my carbine instead of BUIS.

[Warped Mindless]

Most good shooters only shoot a dot gun about 10% better than an irons gun. At least, that holds true for me.

In a real world situation I don’t feel that 10% is worth the cons of a RDS. Plus, I’ve had two name brand, well maintained, red dots completely fail on me out of the blue. I just don’t think the technology is 100% there yet.

For competition, RDS all day! For self defense, I’m comfortable with irons.

[Nephrology]

Yes, I am fully converted and will not carry a gun without one, will not buy a handgun that doesn't have a means to mount a red dot or that can be cost-effectively machined to accept one of my choice (eg cheap used Glock). Not that I have any plans to buy any new handguns... have a fleet of glock pistols outfitted with Trijicon and Holosun sights. Quite satisfied.

Some of the tech could be a little better - I do find the RMR's bottom-mounted battery annoying and the auto-adjust feature on the Holosuns and RMRcc is pretty meh. That said they are more than durable/reliable enough for my needs, have all faithfully held zero, and I have never had issues with batteries dying prematurely or unexpectedly (even my Gen 1 ACROs).

The difference they make in my accuracy, particularly at 15 yards or greater, is incredibly obvious. By extension I shoot faster and more confidently at all distances as I do not have to struggle to acquire my sight picture. Particularly true as my near vision is not what it used to be. Cannot imagine shooting iron sighted handguns again outside of curios..

I don’t think we’re there yet simply because nothing with pistol-mounted optics has been standardized regarding actually mounting them onto pistols. We’ve got numerous top-down-screw style mounting footprints (RMR, Delta Point, Romeo, etc). There are two different horizontal screw/clamp rail style (ACRO and 509T). There are multiple footprints for the mini-optics like the Shield RMSc and Trijicon RMRcc. Every time someone comes out with a new optic, it seems like they come out with a proprietary footprint for it. Every firearm manufacturer seems to have their own optics-ready cut and plate system too. Until you can buy any handgun and any optic and securely attach them together with whatever came in their respective boxes, the way you can with pretty much any rifle with a 1913 style rail and pretty much any optic that comes with a 1913 compatible mount, we won’t be at the point where pistol-mounted optics are ubiquitous. I just want every slide to come from the factory machined for an ACRO-style footprint and for every optic to come from the factory with an ACRO-style mounting system.

I do agree with this in part but the RMR footprint offers all of the choices that I would ever want, though I do have a few (mostly full-size) guns cut for the ACRO. I do think the ACRO is the superior footprint by design. I dislike futzing with the little screws.

If the RMR footprint ever goes the way of the dinosaur entirely I am willing to shell out ~$200-300 (2022 dollars) for a new stripped slide milled for whatever the next thing is. Price of progress.

I think there is still some evolution left in the footprint design for "slim-line" sized handguns (eg P365, glock 43) and a clear winner has yet to emerge there.

[Joe in PNG]

at 48, my eyes don't see a crisp front sight any more. So RDS on my carry gun is no longer an option for making quality hits at a distance on demand.

Same here. Even my beloved 1911, which was super easy to make hits with a mere 2 years ago has a sight picture that has gotten somewhat fuzzy.

[WobblyPossum]

That doesn’t exist for rifle optics either outside modern US/NATO military guns like ARs. Even then you still have carry handle adaptors or weaver uppers like the Dutch M16 variants.

We are only about 1/3 to 1/2 way there on pistols but we don’t have the US MIL and a GWOT driving innovation and standardization either.

I think it’s pretty much all modern rifles. What doesn’t have pic rails at this point? Manually operated repeaters like bolt actions and lever actions, and some of those do come with pic rails. Pretty much any semiautomatic rifle designed in the last 25 years has a 1913-style rail to mount optics.