We have any A/C techs or knowledgeable folks on the board? I'm getting ready to replace my home unit (2005-vintage Rheem) and I could use some help sifting through the sales tech mumbo jumbo. I've got a few guys coming by the house this week to provide quotes. First guy this morning was pushing Daikin and Trane as top-of-the-line choices, as well as York and Goodman for budget options.
Nothing wrong with Goodman. My last furnace was Goodman 40+ years and I wouldnt have changed it out except the coils for the new heat pump, I also replaced a 40 year old ac (carrier), wouldnt fit. Both replacements were Goodman.Originally Posted by Casey
I didnt opt for the variable speed unit as I have seen so many of those variable speed drives fail and its an expensive part.
Now would be a good time to put a surge arrestor in your panel.
ETA Im an electrician not a HVAC tech.
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
I just had an Amana unit put in my daughter's house because it shit the bed while she was away on vacation. Was going to go with American Standard but the installer let me know that Amana has a lifetime warranty on the compressor and that's what cratered on her Carrier unit that was about 9 years old. All the other name brands have about the same warranty, but Amana offers more.
Upper tier Goodman, Trane, Carrier, York and Amana are all good brands.
Don't spend money on variable speed compressors unless you are in the northern part of the country. They are only good in cooler temps and possibly heat pumps. If it's actually hot it's going to be running at full speed and you won't be saving anything anyway, so why spend extra?
My understanding—which may not be accurate—is that variable units are superior at dehumidification, which is definitely a consideration living in South Florida. Is a variable going to actually need to run at 100% to keep up with summer heat down here, assuming an appropriately sized unit, relatively modern construction home with decent insulation, etc.?
My understanding comes from when I was doing my homework on my daughter's unit. I asked the installer if he was installing a specific model/sku that I had pulled from their website which was a variable speed compressor. He said he'd never even seen that one and replied with the model he was installing which I looked up to find was the same unit, it just had a single speed compressor in it. So I did some more digging on Amana's website and found that the variable units from Amana aren't even sold in the southern states because they are intended for moderate climates. I'm in Oklahoma and this summer was pretty dang hot. My daughter's house is well built and only 9 years old. She would have been able to get a new unit under Carrier's warranty but it only goes to the original purchaser and she had just bought the house.
As to dehumidification I can't see how it would be any better when running at a lower speed but I'm not a HVAC tech either, just one whose read a bit. The new systems still use soft start/variable motors on the fans. The fan on the evaporator coil may well have an effect, I'm not sure. I like mine to run at a moderate to low speed in heating and wide ass open in cooling season. I think the manufacturers push their most high tech models on their websites and literature for advertising purposes to try to keep up with their competition.
I did install my own Goodman complete system some 20 years ago, but that was just a plug and play-direct replacement proposition and I had access to the tools needed from work at the time. I couldn't do that now due to city inspections. It was just a base model system and I hated the condenser unit because it would wake the dead, it was so loud. I was kind of taken aback when I first threw the switch. Units today are much better, but that system did give me good service for about 14 years.
Maybe @Stone would have some ideas.
(I'm sure I'm not doing the tag function correctly).
I just put in a new two-stage American Standard 80 percent furnace and 13 Seer AC into my small home. It replaced a 1985 Trane. 13 Seer will be out after January 1, 2021; everything everywhere will have to be higher. And you might have to be higher anyway depending on the map.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=40232
My extensive youtube research, which now makes me an expert, indicated that there are about 4 major brands, which have subbrands. American Standard/Trane, Carrier/Bryant, Lennox, and then Daikin which has Amana and Goodman.
For my little house I liked a simpler system better. I went with the contractor who seemed to put the most effort into explaining what they would do and seemed quality oriented on the install, which I think everyone says is the most important piece to consider. They also gave me a firm date for install and met it, which was important in August.
I didn't want to punch a hole in my roof or house so I stuck with the 80 percent furnace. There are some rebates and tax credits available that could sway others, differently.
Last edited by idahojess; 09-29-2022 at 02:47 PM.
What I have been told, the installer is almost more important than the hardware... almost. You need to find an installer you can trust and see what they push.
I was pointed to a local company and the name of a specific guy to do the installation. I found this info out on the local gun forum, pinging a guy who had a lot of commercial HVAC work done in our area. This company pushed Lennox ($$$) and also Armstrong Air (owned by Lennox, but cheaper...maybe a Cadillac vs Chevy thing...)
I went with a top model Armstrong Air Heat Pump (20 SEER) + propane furnace (97%). It has been amazing relative to the 15 year old unit it replaced, although any newer unit would be. We are near brackish waters and I can see the other unit is starting to corrode pretty badly at 12 years.
In the winter, the Heat Pump runs out of efficiency and the furnace kicks in. Depending on your climate, the heat pump + furnace might work better than an actual AC + furnace.
The high end model comes with more technology that can die but Armstrong has a 10 year parts warranty and my local installer gave me 10 years labor.
https://www.armstrongair.com/
Got your tag but I have been up in the great white north banging steel and whackin beaversI will read through the thread tomorrow and chime in.
Im going to repeat this part. Put a Surge Suppressor in your panel. If your grounding system is good it can save you a lot of money and headaches. Just consider eyerything in your house has an electronics board in it and those are expensive. It doesnt take a lightning strike to have a spike. All kinds of things like motors turning on and off, someone with a welder in their garage, id suspect a toaster has a spike. Vaccumn cleaner motors, refrigerators, washer dryer hair dryers etc etc.
the damage is cumulative, it may not be one big spike or surge but smaller ones over time. All the surge suppressors have an equipment damage warranty. How difficult it is to make a claim I dont know. I do know one person who has had multiple items oven microwave stovetop a/c unit damaged all at once and it was covered under home owners but only because the repairman was willing to talk to the insurance company and state with absolute certainty it was lightning.
Last edited by UNK; 10-01-2022 at 08:31 AM.
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
I worked as a (residential and some commercial) HVAC installer for the last six years and we installed Amana and goodman products. As I understand it, Amana owns Goodman and Goodman is basically their budget option usually bought by folks that were selling their home soon or were renting/leasing a property and just needed something cheaper put in. I do know that Coleman is junk as we were consistantly replacing 3-4 year old coils and CU's that were leaking refrigerent due to manufacturing issues. Rheem and Ruud are middle of the road brands and reviews are a mixed bag, as a pro I wouldnt buy it as I know there are better options. YMMV
I installed a 80% 60K BTU furnace and 1.5 ton AC in my house 3 years ago and she runs great. In my six years I only had to replace 2 new units I installed, so thats 2 out of roughly 700 full installs which is a pretty good track record for Amana. Occasionally a mother board, fan motor or misc. part would go bad on a newer unit but thats just the reality of anything made by humans.
Regardless of which brand you choose make sure the company has at least a one year warranty on parts and labor and the maker has 5-10 on their units. Also, probably the biggest thing I would make sure the company does is:
1) Make sure their installer pushes Nitrogen into the line set as he is welding the copper AC lines. This is huge, if they dont, major amounts of slag build up inside the lines and eventually break off and clog the fixed fitting or the TXV! That is a major cause of premaure AC system failures and you would be shocked at how many companys dont use nitrogen. Look up the videos on youtube of using nitrogen while welding AC lines and NOT using nitrogen, night and day. Even if they tell you they do use nitrogen I would visually verify it as he is welding because what the salesman tells you and what the installer does may be two different things... I highly encourage you to watch the youtube videos.
2) After he welds the lines make sure he does a pressure check on the line set to verify the integrity of his welds, this is done with nitrogen as well.
3) after that make sure they use a vacuum pump to get the atmosphere down to less than 500 microns in the line set, below 250 is even better. This removes oxygen and contaminents from the lines before he cuts loose the r410 into the system that is pre installeled into the CU. Again, visually watch the installer do this as not everybody has integrity...
When I left the industry a year ago there was chatter about companys going to Zoom fittings which just presses a pressure fitting on the copper lines and joins them together, not sure if it has been implemented industry wide yet. While it will do away with the welding aspect, the lines still need to be vaccumed down to less than 500 microns. The vaccum pump finds pin hole leaks in the lines (if there are any) and saves alot of future headaches as the pump will suck in outside air as is vacuums down and he may only get to 1200 microns and will know there is a pin hole leak as the pump just jumps around and the micron gauge will keep rising and falling...
ECM motors are definetly better than standard as it adjusts itself to whats required of it by the system, instead of just high or low it ramps itself up and down based on whats being called for.
If you have an unfinished basement or the area where the indoor unit is, I would highly suggest having them install a new line set (large and small copper lines that run from the coil to the CU. If its buried behind finshed walls, that will cost more and might not be feasible.
If I can think of more to add, I will. Just thought I would chime in, food for thought.
In all reality, most of the internal parts on furnaces and AC systems are only made by a small handful of companys like White-Rogers, etc,etc...
Last edited by Stone; 10-02-2022 at 12:31 PM.
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