“You were flagging everyone on the line with your OWB pistol”

[Wise_A]

I'd agree with it, presuming it was from the perspective of trying to manage a controlled environment and limiting the number of guns and potential bad things that could happen. But that's an instructor-level decision.

This is not that.

[SeriousStudent]

The four rules codified by Col. Cooper (peace be unto him) were designed so that two of them have to violated simultaneously in order for an injury to occur.

LL - for the person making the "observation", I would politely point out that your holster serves the same function as his rifle case. It prevents any manipulation of the trigger, with a resultant injury. Is his rifle resting in its case unsafe? Would be propose removing the barrel from the action to make it inoperable?

If he desires to serve as an RSO, I would encourage him to observe a skeet, trap or sporting clay match where people commonly rest the muzzle of their shotgun on their foot. Beretta actually makes a product that encourages this:

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/sales/...rest-toe-pad-/

[UNM1136]

IIRC Dave Lauck had the same issue...

pat

Looking at his books I am feeling really, really old right now....

pat

[Sensei]

Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club requires weapon qualification at one of their proprietary courses before members are allowed to shoot independently. They will dismiss anyone from a qualification course if they bring a cased weapon to the line, open said case, and then are found to have the muzzle pointing anywhere but down range in the case. No shit - your case can be facing anywhere in the moments leading up to your walking to the line, but it better damn well be pointed down range when you set it up the bench and open the top or unzip it. Otherwise, they will dismiss you for “muzzling the range.”

On some level, I appreciate the attention to safety. However, if we are being intellectually consistent, my cased weapons muzzle the entire range from the back of my truck every time I drive up to the range and perform a three point turn before backing into a parking space near the line. My cased weapons also “muzzle” the entire range as I pull them out of my truck. Perhaps a more reasoned approach would be to say that all weapons must be cased or holstered when off the line, and should be orientation with the muzzle down range when handled on the line? Call me crazy but that is the standard that I used just about everywhere else.

As an aside, I find these rules are frequently championed by people who feel the need to wear at least 2 piece of NRA insignia to the range - usually some combination of hat, shirt, or belt buckle. They are also drawn to positions of power outside of the club such as HOA president or leadership in a rural, volunteer rescue squad.

[Lost River]

There is a certain percentage of people that attend firearms classes that consider themselves superior to all others and want to point this out, any chance they get, by looking for opportunities to be offended. This is all so they can show both their vast knowledge of the subject, be condescending to others, and then to have something to gossip about later on forums or at the gun counter where they hang out at and run their mouths like the blowhards that they are.

"Oh My God you broke rule 4 when you took a picture of the muzzle of your firearm!"

All are reasons why I stay far, far away from public ranges, gun shows and most classes.

[LittleLebowski]

Personally, I can see the issues with say a sausage sack holster, Uncle Mikes, etc; especially if the wearer is doing it as a statement and/or is clearly untrained. But a guy who’s using a good holster, isn’t fiddle-fucking with the weapon, and isn’t out to make a statement? No problem.

I mean, how many of you were at ToddG’s memorial shoot? Or something like it? That was way “worse” than me taking a precision rifle course with no one behind me while I was shooting except for the former Marine Scout Sniper instructors that definitely didn’t give a fuck.

Pretty much if someone is worried about a situation like this, I usually can directly correlate it to a lack of familiarity and training. Ultimately, it would make one afraid to go out in public in a CCW-friendly state. To me, it’s sad that a self styled shooter even feels this way. Might as well move to a state where there’s no CCW then, buddy.

[Clusterfrack]

At my club, if you have a double case with opposite-facing rifles, you can open it but only touch the one facing downrange. That seems reasonable. However... people keep shortcutting the rule by quickly turning the rear-facing gun, as if it is somehow safer to only briefly muzzle people. Or maybe hoping no one notices.

Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club requires weapon qualification at one of their proprietary courses before members are allowed to shoot independently. They will dismiss anyone from a qualification course if they bring a cased weapon to the line, open said case, and then are found to have the muzzle pointing anywhere but down range in the case. No shit - your case can be facing anywhere in the moments leading up to your walking to the line, but it better damn well be pointed down range when you set it up the bench and open the top or unzip it. Otherwise, they will dismiss you for “muzzling the range.”

On some level, I appreciate the attention to safety. However, if we are being intellectually consistent, my cased weapons muzzle the entire range from the back of my truck every time I drive up to the range and perform a three point turn before backing into a parking space near the line. My cased weapons also “muzzle” the entire range as I pull them out of my truck. Perhaps a more reasoned approach would be to say that all weapons must be cased or holstered when off the line, and should be orientation with the muzzle down range when handled on the line? Call me crazy but that is the standard that I used just about everywhere else.

As an aside, I find these rules are frequently championed by people who feel the need to wear at least 2 piece of NRA insignia to the range - usually some combination of hat, shirt, or belt buckle. They are also drawn to positions of power outside of the club such as HOA president or leadership in a rural, volunteer rescue squad.

[LittleLebowski]

Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club requires weapon qualification at one of their proprietary courses before members are allowed to shoot independently. They will dismiss anyone from a qualification course if they bring a cased weapon to the line, open said case, and then are found to have the muzzle pointing anywhere but down range in the case. No shit - your case can be facing anywhere in the moments leading up to your walking to the line, but it better damn well be pointed down range when you set it up the bench and open the top or unzip it. Otherwise, they will dismiss you for “muzzling the range.”

On some level, I appreciate the attention to safety. However, if we are being intellectually consistent, my cased weapons muzzle the entire range from the back of my truck every time I drive up to the range and perform a three point turn before backing into a parking space near the line. My cased weapons also “muzzle” the entire range as I pull them out of my truck. Perhaps a more reasoned approach would be to say that all weapons must be cased or holstered when off the line, and should be orientation with the muzzle down range when handled on the line? Call me crazy but that is the standard that I used just about everywhere else.

As an aside, I find these rules are frequently championed by people who feel the need to wear at least 2 piece of NRA insignia to the range - usually some combination of hat, shirt, or belt buckle. They are also drawn to positions of power outside of the club such as HOA president or leadership in a rural, volunteer rescue squad.

Exactly. Let’s not even get into being flagged when driving down the road because someone has a cased weapon with the muzzle facing you 🤣

[the Schwartz]

Just heard this from a guy at the SnipersHide Precision rifle class I just attended (highly, highly recommended). The pistol was a Glock 48 in a Raven Perun.

I laughed and said something like “well, then all concealed carry is unsafe, then.” Homeboy didn’t say anything the rest of the class and I damn sure didn’t stop carrying, no one else said anything.

I got nothing, feels like I ran into a Fudd, but he was at least 10 years younger than I.

Isn't it kind of an unwritten rule that there is always at least one of ''that guy'' in any training session?

I get the impression that most folks who fall into category are the types who see themselves as ''the smartest guy in the room'' and by virtue of that self-recognized trait appoint themselves as ''arbiters of all that is safe and proper'' because they are, after all, the smartest guy in the room.

Oddly enough, they often seem to be the ''least popular guy in the room''. I am sure that there is a correlation there somewhere.

[LittleLebowski]

Reason number 50 or 51 why open carry sucks.

Kidding aside, I don't want to be covered by someone else's muzzle. I have no idea the condition of the pistol, what mods were done to it, and the interaction between pistol and holster.

Just yesterday, I was staring at the guy's pistol, in line in front of me, wondering whether it was a 250 or 320, and remembering why I don't like a FBI cant.

To set the record straight, I wasn’t really open carrying. Yeah, it was OWB, but I had a big ass long sweatshirt on and if it rode up, I would re-cover out of habit.