On Killing

[breakingtime91]

I had the privilege of seeing Lt. Col. Grossman speak after my first deployment to Afghanistan. The Marine Corps had sent combat veterans to a convention to see him speak and discuss our combat experiences with one another. Most of us in the audience had taken someone's life or had been involved in a gun fight that had led to someone's life being taken. I was 19 at the time and had not fully processed what it meant to take a life or the lasting effects it could have, even though I had experienced it. So being vulnerable, I will say that it has had a lasting and sometimes catastrophic effect on my life. Not just the act of taking a life but almost having mine taken. I am 31 now, my last gun fight was 10 years ago and I still have nightmares about the actual fight or in my dreams will and do have sit down conversations with the men involved in said gun fights. The act of killing is easy, living with it is much, much harder. I hope to have a discussion about what it actually means to take a life, the ramifications of that, and how to push past it.

I am successful now, I have a career, but I still feel like an outlier amongst others because of it. I know others feel the same way.


Sorry tough night and needed to vent.

[73Bronco]

Semper Fi brother.

[Lost River]

I would be willing to discuss this further in depth but it may be a topic best reserved for the section not viewed by the general public.

That may be just me though, as I am very reluctant to discuss such things on an open forum.

[45dotACP]

I'm certainly not experienced in that regard, but I suspect being able to talk to a psychologist who specializes in working with combat veterans would be far more useful than anything I could say.

Wishing you well. Sorry for the shitty night.



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[Lost River]

I'm certainly not experienced in that regard, but I suspect being able to talk to a psychologist who specializes in working with combat veterans would be far more useful than anything I could say.

Wishing you well. Sorry for the shitty night.



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Psychologists are generally not nearly as comforting to a guy as talking with peers. Unless the doc has personal experience, it is simply not the same. There is a time and place for a doc, but quite often a group of fellow vets is far more beneficial.

[45dotACP]

Psychologists are generally not nearly as comforting to a guy as talking with peers. Unless the doc has personal experience, it is simply not the same. There is a time and place for a doc, but quite often a group of fellow vets is far more beneficial.

That makes a great deal of sense. It's probably quite rare to find someone with such qualifications.

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[Lost River]

In wars past (such as WW2) guys came back a little better adjusted. Many of them (not all, but most) assimilated back into mainstream society fairly well.

The funny thing is that it was not because they were better quality guys than the ones who have been fighting this last war that has been going on for the last 20 years. Oddly enough it was partly a matter of technology. Primarily transportation technology. When guys were done with combat in WWII and were coming home they did not hop on airplanes to be home with families 72 hours later. They were put on troop transport ships. Those ships took weeks and sometimes months to get to their destination. Then they got processed and were put on busses and trains with other soldiers. A WWII soldier may end up taking 3 months getting home.

During that time he was able to share his experiences with other combat vets and process things. This helped substantially with what we now know as PTSD. Then it was simply known as combat fatigue.

Now, we go from being in a fire fight to being in a living room in just 3 or 4 days sometimes and it is extremely hard to turn that off. Especially for guys who come from combat MOS jobs or specialized jobs where they are seeing a lot of action. Their wives and kids do not understand the substantial changes they are seeing in their spouses. Trying to turn that on and off is incredibly hard for guys.

That is why many have substantial problems. Sleep issues. substance abuse issues, relationship issues, job issues etc. Interacting with people is extremely difficult for many. You can "hide" it, but for a person who has significant experiences, it is difficult go back to being the same person you were. Simply because you are not the same person.

So processing all of that with a group of peers is very important.

Anyways, just my 2 cents worth of perspective.

[Lon]

That makes a great deal of sense. It's probably quite rare to find someone with such qualifications.

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I’m fortunate to have Dr. Kathy Platoni close by. She’s the rare bird, I think. She specializes in .mil/LE/FD mental health care. She’s a Ft. Hood survivor. She’s great and has helped me and a bunch of cops I know deal with some of the FUBAR shit we’ve had to deal with.

An article she wrote about Hood: https://www.ashlandmhrb.org/upload/k...race_-_wsj.pdf

@breakingtime91, her website w contact info if you ever want to reach out to her: http://www.drplatoni.com

[BehindBlueI's]

I had the privilege of seeing Lt. Col. Grossman speak after my first deployment to Afghanistan. The Marine Corps had sent combat veterans to a convention to see him speak and discuss our combat experiences with one another. Most of us in the audience had taken someone's life or had been involved in a gun fight that had led to someone's life being taken. I was 19 at the time and had not fully processed what it meant to take a life or the lasting effects it could have, even though I had experienced it. So being vulnerable, I will say that it has had a lasting and sometimes catastrophic effect on my life. Not just the act of taking a life but almost having mine taken. I am 31 now, my last gun fight was 10 years ago and I still have nightmares about the actual fight or in my dreams will and do have sit down conversations with the men involved in said gun fights. The act of killing is easy, living with it is much, much harder. I hope to have a discussion about what it actually means to take a life, the ramifications of that, and how to push past it.

I am successful now, I have a career, but I still feel like an outlier amongst others because of it. I know others feel the same way.


Sorry tough night and needed to vent.

I found this book to be helpful: https://www.amazon.com/Full-Catastro.../dp/0345536932

The book is helpful for stress and the aftermath of tragedy, not "on killing" specific. It's not the killing so much as the stress and the aftermath and the what ifs. I killed and had very little to push past. I found an in custody death, one which eventually I was determined to not even have caused, immensely worse. So much worse. Honestly, I typed a lot more and chickened out. I'll see myself out.

[TOTS]

Hey man, it’s great to have these conversations; no matter the forum. Many of my friends are/were MARSOC and I have seen over the past decade what happens to them and their families when they don’t get this stuff out. I have my own experiences after 9 enlisted and 15 officer years in the Corps and still do my share of bottling up as well. @breakingtime91, check your PMs, sending you my number if you ever want to talk to a fellow Marine.