I do a scoop draw and have > 95% success without adjustment. I also practice a snatch draw.
I do a scoop draw and have > 95% success without adjustment. I also practice a snatch draw.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
I think a scoop can be done.Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
I personally haven’t ever found a need for a scoop at the speeds I go.
Max Michel in his patreon also isn’t a fan because of increased inconsistency that goes along with it.
I can probably do 99%+ consistent grip draws at full speed and I like only having one type of draw. YMMV.
Robert Vogel recently posted a video on his Facebook about the scoop draw. He said that while he practiced it to set up some records, he never uses it in the match. Stoeger made the same point in the past. He would say it is only good for Instagram. I personally believe that a good grip is way more important than a superfast draw. I played with it for a while. It is great when it works but frankly, if I am to shoot more then two rounds stage/course of fire, I would not do it. I can save way more time shooting faster. That means recoil control and, therefore, a good grip. It is more important with major PF I guess.
The scoop is about 0.2s faster, and feels more relaxed to me because there's no direction change. If you pull the gun out before your hand is in the right place, that's no good. I don't do that. Consistency is key. I get the same grip with scoop, snatch, or hybrid "snoop" draws.
EDIT: Trainers don't like the scoop draw because people fuck it up in really bad ways. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it as a general draw technique.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Watch the Vogel video, he specifically mentioned that he makes sure the hand is in the correct place while gun is still in the holster. The scoop is faster of course but you lose a lot more than .2 on a simple El Prez run if the grip is not perfect. .2Sec is one Charlie if the HF is 10. One C! Easy to drop with a not perfect grip, right?
What I’m saying is that it’s possible to develop a snatch draw that produces a good grip.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Yeah, that is probably true. Then why most top shooters do not use it? Max, Stoeger, Vogel?
I think when we analyzed your video some of your scoopish wound up being snatchish?
I think simple words are such artificial oversimplifications of things that they aren’t that useful.
To me:
Scoop means the fingers contact the front strap as the first point of contact.
Everything else has heel / palm of hand contacting backstrap first or at the same time as fingers on front strap.
Whether you call that snatch or what have you.
My typical NON-scoop full speed draw is around 0.60 with a heavy pistol.
With a lighter plastic gun, it’s in the 0.5x range. I just never saw the need to go much faster than that worth the inconsistency.
Max and Ben have put in a ton of training to be fast and relaxed with a snatch. Possibly at the very top levels, multiple draw techniques are a disadvantage.
Vogel: I suspect that the weird stuff he does with his grip and elbows requires a particular draw.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
This is amazing. With this draw you do not need any scoop/snatch or whatever else it is called draw
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