General (and some specific) Defensive Shotgun Questions

[Borderland]

I have pump shotguns. One with 20" barrel. They all stay in my safe with my magazine rifles and everything else I've collected over the years.

As far as shotguns go, I've had single shots, sxs's, O/U's, auto loaders and pumps. I guess that about covers every modern shotgun ever made.

I do recognize the utility however but a rifle wins for applications past 40 yards and a pistol wins for close quarters combat (inside your house). Think knife fight.

That leaves 7-40 yds. for the optimal shotgun range.

Probably the reason for the increasing popularity of SBR's and AR pistols. They can do double duty.

I've never seen anyone at my range with a SD shotgun. The pattern board isn't used and is rusting. I have seen some SBR's and AR pistols however.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here. If you like the concept of a SD shotgun you should buy one. What you feel comfortable with is probably more important than anything else.

My choice for one SD firearm for your home would be a Sig MCX in 300 BLK. When there's lead in the air there's hope.

[Jason M]

Speaking of urban and suburban, I've had an influx of people seeking out shotgun training from Baltimore. Largely people who know very little about firearms apart from they can get their hands on shotguns and nobody blinks an eye.

I think this is going to be a more frequent motivating theme for those seeking first time training. Especially along the I-95 corridor.

[GearFondler]

I have pump shotguns. One with 20" barrel. They all stay in my safe with my magazine rifles and everything else I've collected over the years.

As far as shotguns go, I've had single shots, sxs's, O/U's, auto loaders and pumps. I guess that about covers every modern shotgun ever made.

I do recognize the utility however but a rifle wins for applications past 40 yards and a pistol wins for close quarters combat (inside your house). Think knife fight.

That leaves 7-40 yds. for the optimal shotgun range.

Probably the reason for the increasing popularity of SBR's and AR pistols. They can do double duty.

I've never seen anyone at my range with a SD shotgun. The pattern board isn't used and is rusting. I have seen some SBR's and AR pistols however.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here. If you like the concept of a SD shotgun you should buy one. What you feel comfortable with is probably more important than anything else.

My choice for one SD firearm for your home would be a Sig MCX in 300 BLK. When there's lead in the air there's hope.

You aren't raining on our parade... You do you. But at the risk of sounding like a dick, what is the point your post aside from explaining your opinion that shotguns are irrelevant?
You built your argument using your perceived negatives and ignored everything else.
If I need to pull a trigger it is because I feel there is a life in danger and my number one priority is to stop that threat as quickly as possible. Period. Make That Threat End.
Nothing else available to we civilians is as effective at stopping a threat as the 12g Shotgun. One single pull of the trigger can deliver 9 simultaneous .33 cal rounds into the target. Or in my case, 15 .30 cal pellets using FC #1 Buck.
Sure, damn near any round from 22LR on up can probably end a fight in one shot if you can hit the eye box, but I'm not John Wick and what I can do on a square range is not what I will probably be able to do in a real fight. I want all the advantages I can stack.
Also, I don't live on a ranch. I can't realistically envision a scenario where I would need to shoot anyone beyond my front yard. I don't need an LPVO to protect my family.
Yes, the Sig MCX in 300blk is a very reasonable choice IF you could only have ONE weapon, but that's not the case being discussed. And good luck to most people at finding and affording enough 300blk to practice with it. And less relevant but still a possible issue is the legality of even owning a weapon of that type in many states. And that brace most use is legal for now but will it stay that way?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I would like to see the sales breakdowns in ban states like NY. I'm sure it's somewhere. The industry sales show that shotgun purchase numbers have been flat for most years as compared to handguns and ARs.

Given the weird rifle rules for NY, the average Joe or Joan, probably doesn't have the expertise to dig into the compliant rifles. You don't see that many of them in the LGS and the big boxes don't carry them. The Mini-14s are probably an unknown to most.

Thus, as I said, I saw the shotguns flying off the shelves.

In TX, we had a vibrant carbine match environment, not so much here. Some PCC in steel and USPSA but that's 9 mm for the most part.

There is a pretty active kill the clay thingee culture.

[RevolverRob]

@TCinVA - Any thoughts re: Semi-auto action familiarity and individuals who shoot clay/skeet/trap/hunt with a gun using the same manual of arms as their defensive guns? Are they more able to perform the manipulations needed when running their defense guns?

[Borderland]

You aren't raining on our parade... You do you. But at the risk of sounding like a dick, what is the point your post aside from explaining your opinion that shotguns are irrelevant?
You built your argument using your perceived negatives and ignored everything else.
If I need to pull a trigger it is because I feel there is a life in danger and my number one priority is to stop that threat as quickly as possible. Period. Make That Threat End.
Nothing else available to we civilians is as effective at stopping a threat as the 12g Shotgun. One single pull of the trigger can deliver 9 simultaneous .33 cal rounds into the target. Or in my case, 15 .30 cal pellets using FC #1 Buck.
Sure, damn near any round from 22LR on up can probably end a fight in one shot if you can hit the eye box, but I'm not John Wick and what I can do on a square range is not what I will probably be able to do in a real fight. I want all the advantages I can stack.
Also, I don't live on a ranch. I can't realistically envision a scenario where I would need to shoot anyone beyond my front yard. I don't need an LPVO to protect my family.
Yes, the Sig MCX in 300blk is a very reasonable choice IF you could only have ONE weapon, but that's not the case being discussed. And good luck to most people at finding and affording enough 300blk to practice with it. And less relevant but still a possible issue is the legality of even owning a weapon of that type in many states. And that brace most use is legal for now but will it stay that way?

I didn't say they were irrelevant. Lots of them have been sold to the SD crowd. I was just pointing out a few advantages of pistols and SBR's. I think if a person decides it's the best platform for SD then they should pursue that. Nothing more.

[SwampDweller]

Great posts! As an aside, when the Covid wave first hit, the LGS was just full of folks buying pump guns. The Turkish guns flew off the shelves. I spent a bit of time in the store doing paper work on transfers and every time, the pump guns were going out the door.

Another aside, the club I've been shooting at decided to due a two gun, shotgun/handgun match. You could just shoot your handgun. I was surprised that quite of few of the 'gamer' crowd didn't have shotguns and said they never fired one! They just shot the match for more practice with their game rig. I ran my 1300 Defender which was the gun I ran in Tom Givens' class. Worked fine.

I've thought about moving on up to the 1301 world, but it's really not that useful for me and other expenses rule. Hit the lottery and I will.

I work at a gun store in FL and saw the same thing. We had literal crowds of people coming in to buy pump shotguns, and most of them were first time gun buyers. I'd never seen a run on pump actions before, usually it's been ARs when an AWB is feared, and usually buyers already owned many firearms including ARs.

[GearFondler]

I didn't say they were irrelevant. Lots of them have been sold to the SD crowd. I was just pointing out a few advantages of pistols and SBR's. I think if a person decides it's the best platform for SD then they should pursue that. Nothing more.

It's very possible that I am being a bit defensive here but the "anti-shotgun" rhetoric gets really old after a while. We are literally in the Shotgun subforum and yet you want to tell us why the AR is superior. Do you also spend time in the Revolver forum telling everyone how a Wonder 9 would be a better choice?
Again, I am blasting you right now but in reality my frustration lies with a huge segment of gun owners. It feels like shotguns can't even be mentioned without dudes preaching about how shotguns suck.
Almost universally they list the advantages of the AR and compare them to the disadvantages of a shotgun. This of course ignores the disadvantages of an AR or the advantages of the shotgun but those don't help their argument so they aren't considered.
I don't personally even own an AR platform rifle at the moment. Why? Because my financial resources are limited and between a decent stable of Glocks and my 1301T I feel like my bases are more than covered for any realistic threat I may face. Yeah, I'd love a high-end AR or two but only because I love guns and the AR is a damn fine weapon, and not because I feel like it would offer me a superior SD tool for my situation.

[Bergeron]

My shotguns are now all semi-autos or break actions, but I started out with a pump Mossberg for hunting (I was really convinced back then that a 3.5" chamber with steel-shot was the duck solution of choice), got into clay shooting with it, and had it as my first defensive firearm. The earlier comments about aggressiveness in running the action really hit home for me.

Back when I had that gun, it was my only shotgun, and my centerfire rifle was a 7600 in .35 Whelen, and I never short-stroked either of them, mainly because my internal-intellectual cue to stop running the fore arm back was whenever it slammed to a halt. I was a big, dumb kid and it was fun to beat on a gun that kicked hard anyways. It was certainly slower than the semi-auto or break action guns, but that didn't really matter back when it was my only shotgun.

[Oldherkpilot]

Why would you go for a shotgun over a rifle for defensive purposes?

Its a trap!😁