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Thread: General (and some specific) Defensive Shotgun Questions

  1. #111
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    If I get a PD trade in 870P, would sending it off to VangComp or somewhere similar bring it up to like-new condition?
    I think so. Iíve been very happy with my 870 Super Express thatís been Vangíd.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    If I get a PD trade in 870P, would sending it off to VangComp or somewhere similar bring it up to like-new condition?
    Functionally, Iíd think definitely. Appearance wise, i donít know.

    My 870P police trade in was beat to shot on the outside. I cleaned off the surface rust and then left it as-is. Internals weíre in great condition. If I cared how it looked Id probably get it Cerakoted.

  3. #113
    F.A.R.T. Lab Tech RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I'll say this: I emailed Josh at Cotton Branch Customs about a fairly extensive set of modifications I want done to my father's old Winchester pump. Not only is he able to do it, but the prices he quoted me were excellent. It's 8-10 months for him right now. If I bought an old 870 or another Winchester and needed it tuned up, I'd definitely check with Cotton Branch - probably ahead of Vang or Wilson at this point.

    But don't everyone rush out and get on Josh's list. I need his wait times low - because I have too many shotguns I want built.

  4. #114
    Site Supporter 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'll say this: I emailed Josh at Cotton Branch Customs about a fairly extensive set of modifications I want done to my father's old Winchester pump. Not only is he able to do it, but the prices he quoted me were excellent. It's 8-10 months for him right now. If I bought an old 870 or another Winchester and needed it tuned up, I'd definitely check with Cotton Branch - probably ahead of Vang or Wilson at this point.

    But don't everyone rush out and get on Josh's list. I need his wait times low - because I have too many shotguns I want built.
    I'm glad I just buy 590s and shoot the shit out of them. No need to send them out.

  5. #115
    F.A.R.T. Lab Tech RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    I'm glad I just buy 590s and shoot the shit out of them. No need to send them out.
    I mean, I've been pretty clear. I think most folks should buy a 590A1 or a 1301 and call it a day.

    But for me - I am generally very comfortable working on my own guns. And the 870 is a particularly simple gun, in my opinion. Almost anyone who can change their own oil and air filter can probably figure out how to replace shell stops and springs in an old 870. But when it comes to chopping and welding on guns - I leave that to the dudes who dedicate their life to doing that, they tend to do better work. Especially guns that haven't been produced in ~60+ years.

  6. #116
    I'm still trying to decide between a 1301 or Benelli M4. Benelli has been around longer and is pretty well proven, though the 1301 definitely seems to be the current hottness. It's also my understanding that the M4 can be more ammo sensitive, but for both I'd probably limit to full power buckshot or slugs for vetting reliability. Are the 1301s as sensitive to ammunition selection as the M4? More? Less?

    In competitions where you've got lots of people putting lots of rounds through semi auto shotguns, what (in anyone's observation who's been able to see this) have been the most popular and most trouble-free?

  7. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    I'm still trying to decide between a 1301 or Benelli M4. Benelli has been around longer and is pretty well proven, though the 1301 definitely seems to be the current hottness. It's also my understanding that the M4 can be more ammo sensitive, but for both I'd probably limit to full power buckshot or slugs for vetting reliability. Are the 1301s as sensitive to ammunition selection as the M4? More? Less?

    In competitions where you've got lots of people putting lots of rounds through semi auto shotguns, what (in anyone's observation who's been able to see this) have been the most popular and most trouble-free?
    The standard Pistol-forum.com answer is...buy both. I have the M4 and I'm happy with it. I do, however, plan on picking up a 1301 as well.

  8. #118
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    Are the 1301s as sensitive to ammunition selection as the M4? More? Less?
    Less, by orders of magnitude.

    I did a private session with a client on Sunday who had a brand new, unfired 1301 and it ran most of the time with Winchester AA extra light loads meant to be run only in break-action guns. It failed to fully cycle the bolt a couple of times meaning it didn't feed a new shell, but successfully ejected the spent shell. Running the bolt got the shell off the lifter and it fired.

    That's fucking impressive from a semi-auto shotgun that would then go on to run full power slugs reliably and with low felt recoil.

    It's lighter, cheaper (for now), easier to adapt to your body thanks to the innovations from Aridus, and it runs a wider range of ammunition without complaint.

    To me that's a no brainer. The M4 isn't a bad shotgun but the 1301 does what most people actually need a defensive shotgun to do better than the M4 does.

    In competitions where you've got lots of people putting lots of rounds through semi auto shotguns, what (in anyone's observation who's been able to see this) have been the most popular and most trouble-free?
    You won't see many M4's in competitions because it's not set up for that kind of use. Plenty of 3 gunners run Benellis, but they are usually modified inertia guns. Plenty of people run 1301 Competition models.

    If I was going to buy a semi-auto for defensive use tomorrow it would be another 1301.

    If someone shoots clay or hunts with a Benelli already, buy the Benelli so you aren't screwing around trying to learn different control layouts.

    If not, buy the 1301 while it's still relatively affordable.
    3/15/2016

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Less, by orders of magnitude.

    I did a private session with a client on Sunday who had a brand new, unfired 1301 and it ran most of the time with Winchester AA extra light loads meant to be run only in break-action guns. It failed to fully cycle the bolt a couple of times meaning it didn't feed a new shell, but successfully ejected the spent shell. Running the bolt got the shell off the lifter and it fired.

    That's fucking impressive from a semi-auto shotgun that would then go on to run full power slugs reliably and with low felt recoil.

    It's lighter, cheaper (for now), easier to adapt to your body thanks to the innovations from Aridus, and it runs a wider range of ammunition without complaint.

    To me that's a no brainer. The M4 isn't a bad shotgun but the 1301 does what most people actually need a defensive shotgun to do better than the M4 does.



    You won't see many M4's in competitions because it's not set up for that kind of use. Plenty of 3 gunners run Benellis, but they are usually modified inertia guns. Plenty of people run 1301 Competition models.

    If I was going to buy a semi-auto for defensive use tomorrow it would be another 1301.

    If someone shoots clay or hunts with a Benelli already, buy the Benelli so you aren't screwing around trying to learn different control layouts.

    If not, buy the 1301 while it's still relatively affordable.
    I do use a Beretta Silver Mallard for a hunting shotgun, but I don't know if the 1301 has the same controls or not. I was previously a bit worried about the "fatal flaw" thing, but I suppose that's long resolved enough. If it's not happening to guys bumping around with them in 3 gun, that's a pretty safe bet.

    Absolute reliability is more important to me than cost or recoil, but if the Beretta is the answer, then that's that.

    Are there any institutional/LE/mil/govt users of the 1301 or Beretta shotguns with the same basic operating system?

  10. #120
    Alabama DPS issues 1301s and there was a recent OIS by Las Vegas Metro PD in which the officer used a 1301, but I canít say if they issue them or have a list of personally owned approved guns. Iím sure there are more but not many. The shotgun is dying in LE as more and more agencies trade them in for patrol rifles. Many agencies now relegate shotguns to less lethal only or ballistic breaching guns for SWAT dudes with the role of bigger-gun-for-bigger-problems being filled by ARs. My guess is the last ďbigĒ institutional test of shotguns is going to be the one that led the Marine Corps to select the Benelli M4 because most institutional users arenít looking for shotguns anymore.

    Iím satisfied with the reliability of 1301s from a combination of owning one, seeing good things said about them by people in the training industry who see a lot of different guns run a lot of rounds through them every year, and not hearing anything bad out of the competition circuit where some people are running them too. If youíre looking to large institutional users for approval of your next potential shotgun, I wouldnít hold my breath. The market continues to be flooded with police trade-in Remington 870s but those departments arenít generally replacing them with new shotguns.

    ETA: from looking at the Beretta A390 Silver Mallard online, the controls looks almost identical to the 1301. The bolt release on the 1301 is in the same location but itís much larger. Everything else looks the same. I donít actually know if the buttons all do the exact same things, but theyíre in the snake locations. If keeping the same manual of arms between your hunting and defensive shotgun is important to you, then the 1301 might have another advantage.
    Last edited by WobblyPossum; 11-16-2022 at 07:35 AM.

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