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Thread: Low Backup Iron Sights

  1. #1
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Low Backup Iron Sights

    I have been experimenting with very low BUIS on my RDS-equipped handguns. This setup uses a rear sight with notch just visible at the bottom of the window, and a shorter-than-normal front sight, which shifts the POI up into the center of the optic window.




    The POA remains the same regardless of whether the dot is on. The index is the same with dot and BUIS.

    Not surprisingly, I've had numerous questions about this setup--first and foremost whether I can hit anything with the dot off. See below. Low Witness works really well and I recommend giving it a try. If you have a Glock, the switch is especially easy. All that's required is a front sight that's about 0.050" shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    25yds, 10 shots, with dot on.



    25yds, dot turned off. Using my “low witness” BUIS. POI is in the middle of the optic when irons are aligned at bottom of window.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  2. #2
    I have been using these for a while with complete satisfaction. Lower overall height and rounded rear easy on clothing:

    https://chpws.com/product/buis-for-g...milled-slides/
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #3
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I have been using these for a while with complete satisfaction. Lower overall height and rounded rear easy on clothing:

    https://chpws.com/product/buis-for-g...milled-slides/
    Where is your POI with those irons?
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Where is your POI with those irons?
    Similar to what I get with Ameriglo BUIS -- the sights are shorter but same relative proportions as with Ameriglo.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #5
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Similar to what I get with Ameriglo BUIS -- the sights are shorter but same relative proportions as with Ameriglo.
    Makes sense. My setup uses a shorter front.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  6. #6
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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #7
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    Great timing on this post! Just yesterday I heard a comment from a pretty well known trainer advocating for absolute co-witness irons. This, under the theory that, as part of verifying the weapon status before heading out the door, one can and should verify the zero of the dot by seeing the dot sitting on top of the front sight. Mind you that the context for this is purely duty or defensive use. This practice sounds good, but obviously runs counter to the notion of freeing up as much of the window as possible. Absolute co-witness irons would also run counter to the notion that one of the benefits of having an RDS in a defensive situation is the ability to see more of what the thug is doing while you look at them through the window.

    What say ye?
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
    No one is coming. It is up to us.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    Great timing on this post! Just yesterday I heard a comment from a pretty well known trainer advocating for absolute co-witness irons. This, under the theory that, as part of verifying the weapon status before heading out the door, one can and should verify the zero of the dot by seeing the dot sitting on top of the front sight. Mind you that the context for this is purely duty or defensive use. This practice sounds good, but obviously runs counter to the notion of freeing up as much of the window as possible. Absolute co-witness irons would also run counter to the notion that one of the benefits of having an RDS in a defensive situation is the ability to see more of what the thug is doing while you look at them through the window.

    What say ye?
    1) with low height BUIS you can still see the relative position of the dot and irons.

    2) if you want to be OCD, get a green Wheeler laser sighter, and check at 25 yards or as close to that as you can.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    On carbines, I often confirm my dot zero using flip-up BUIS. Most of my carbine optics use a lower 1/3 height mount, so even with lower 1/4 co-witnessed irons on pistols (like @GJM's setup above), you can do the same thing. However, with "floating dot" irons this doesn't work the same way because the dot is floating above the aligned irons. That might seem like a trade-off, but I can still confirm precise windage alignment, and approximate elevation alignment in the same way that I can shoot center of window with the dot turned off and irons aligned at the bottom. I would argue that if it's good enough to shoot A's at 25yds, that's good enough for a defense or duty gun.

    If we are shooting target focus with both eyes open, full co-witness irons won't block vision of the target. Heck, some people shoot with the front of the optic blacked out to force target focus and do pretty darn well. @Schmidtshow

    Full co-witness or low "floating dot" irons as I've described above both allow the shooter to use the same index (center of window) with the dot on and off. With low CO-witnessed irons, the shooter has to adjust how they aim the gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tensaw View Post
    Great timing on this post! Just yesterday I heard a comment from a pretty well known trainer advocating for absolute co-witness irons. This, under the theory that, as part of verifying the weapon status before heading out the door, one can and should verify the zero of the dot by seeing the dot sitting on top of the front sight. Mind you that the context for this is purely duty or defensive use. This practice sounds good, but obviously runs counter to the notion of freeing up as much of the window as possible. Absolute co-witness irons would also run counter to the notion that one of the benefits of having an RDS in a defensive situation is the ability to see more of what the thug is doing while you look at them through the window.

    What say ye?
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  10. #10
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    I’m a big fan of this concept, “lower 1/10th” or whatever we might be calling it.

    I think that as pistol RDS become more mature and common, this will become a more frequent solution.

    I gave all-black “suppressor-heights” to my ‘Smith a while back ago and had them ground to fit & zero.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

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