Shooting Tires

[WobblyPossum]

As @AMC already mentioned, any discussion of shooting tires of a moving vehicle should probably include some discussion of the laws and policies of doing so. I’m unaware of a law enforcement agency that allows officers to purposely shoot at a moving vehicle in an effort to disable it other than two specific DHS components with very specific mission sets in limited circumstances. There might be a few others with similar mission sets of which I don’t know the specific policy but it won’t be more than a handful. My agency specifically prohibits doing so, as did my previous agency. Every agency policy I’m aware of, other than the two previously mentioned, only allows you to target an occupant of a vehicle if you can articulate the occupant is a deadly force threat, not the vehicle itself. We shoot at people. We don’t shoot at cars. Discharging a firearm is a use of deadly force whether you’re targeting a person, an animal, or a vehicle. The laws surrounding using deadly force are generally pretty clear and unambiguous. If you end up purposely shooting at the tires of a moving vehicle, expect to answer some hard questions in court. I’d be surprised if the prosecution doesn’t mention that even the police aren’t generally allowed to target the vehicle itself so what makes it ok for you to do so?

[Chance]

I dont know anything about shooting tires, what really happens to the tire, the ability to operate the vehicle or if there is a down range concern.

Paul Howe covered this topic in his Vehicle Defense video he made with Panteao, including a demo on a stationary vehicle. It's definitely worth the time if you can find a copy.

[BWT]

Just cruising the forum and offering a thought.

Would something like a slug perform better in this capacity than a rifle? Just thinking of a 1 ounce slug (google says 450-ish grains) versus a 55-75 gr bullet.

Any testing on that? I just see pistol/rifle as the only option discussed.

[HCM]

As @AMC already mentioned, any discussion of shooting tires of a moving vehicle should probably include some discussion of the laws and policies of doing so. I’m unaware of a law enforcement agency that allows officers to purposely shoot at a moving vehicle in an effort to disable it other than two specific DHS components with very specific mission sets in limited circumstances. There might be a few others with similar mission sets of which I don’t know the specific policy but it won’t be more than a handful. My agency specifically prohibits doing so, as did my previous agency. Every agency policy I’m aware of, other than the two previously mentioned, only allows you to target an occupant of a vehicle if you can articulate the occupant is a deadly force threat, not the vehicle itself. We shoot at people. We don’t shoot at cars. Discharging a firearm is a use of deadly force whether you’re targeting a person, an animal, or a vehicle. The laws surrounding using deadly force are generally pretty clear and unambiguous. If you end up purposely shooting at the tires of a moving vehicle, expect to answer some hard questions in court. I’d be surprised if the prosecution doesn’t mention that even the police aren’t generally allowed to target the vehicle itself so what makes it ok for you to do so?

TX DPS still authorizes shooting at vehicles to disable them in certain circumstances, though after a border incident a few years ago they may no longer do so from aircraft.

They are an old school and unique agency. The saying goes there's the right way, the wrong way and the DPS way....

That said, it's generally a bad idea for all the previously cited reasons.

[UNK]

As @AMC already mentioned, any discussion of shooting tires of a moving vehicle should probably include some discussion of the laws and policies of doing so. I’m unaware of a law enforcement agency that allows officers to purposely shoot at a moving vehicle in an effort to disable it other than two specific DHS components with very specific mission sets in limited circumstances. There might be a few others with similar mission sets of which I don’t know the specific policy but it won’t be more than a handful. My agency specifically prohibits doing so, as did my previous agency. Every agency policy I’m aware of, other than the two previously mentioned, only allows you to target an occupant of a vehicle if you can articulate the occupant is a deadly force threat, not the vehicle itself. We shoot at people. We don’t shoot at cars. Discharging a firearm is a use of deadly force whether you’re targeting a person, an animal, or a vehicle. The laws surrounding using deadly force are generally pretty clear and unambiguous. If you end up purposely shooting at the tires of a moving vehicle, expect to answer some hard questions in court. I’d be surprised if the prosecution doesn’t mention that even the police aren’t generally allowed to target the vehicle itself so what makes it ok for you to do so?

I googled it not surprisingly based on whats been said here theres not a lot of hits. Heres a couple that were recent

NYPD 2022 https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...5uu-story.html

Newton County 2022 https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox4beaumont .com/amp/news/community-news/officers-shoot-out-tires-stop-driver-who-fled-at-speeds-of-90-100-mph-in-newton-county

[BN]

I started as a reserve with the local PD in 1980. One of the things that the Chief told me was that we no longer were allowed to shoot the tires out on speeders who wouldn't stop. So I guess there's some history about not shooting tires.

I wondered what would happen with run flat tires. A lot of newer cars have them and don't even have a spare tire.

[SWAT Lt.]

What is policy or best practice on shooting tires of an occupied vehicle? In both a vehicle sitting in place or in a vehicle attempting to leave a scene. For example if they have kidnapped a person and that person is in the vehicle. Or in another scenario if they have just commited a violent crime and are attempting to leave the scene.
Should the tires be shot from the side or from the rear or front? Are there specific hazards to be aware of? Is there a certain speed limit at which above the particular speed it shouldnt be attempted. Im assuming that the skills of the shooter would make it most likely the tire would be hit.
Please dont speculate Im only interested in replies from people who have specific training or procedures to follow in this type of event. Im asking from a citizen viewpoint. Legalities also are a concern.

ETA This is assuming a 9mm pistol with quality bonded ammo.

Tires I've seen shot in the tread or sidewall lose air, that's about it. No magic, no blow outs IME. It is prohibited by most, if not all, US LE agencies because the practice is very dangerous and also ineffective. I am personnaly aware of one instance, back in the day, where a tire was shot and the bullet ended up striking the driver of the vehicle. I cannot envision a scenario, including kidnapping, where it would be a good idea to shoot at a tire. That applies to LE and especially to civilians. Do so at your own significant criminal and civil peril.

[Hambo]

Shooting to disable a moving car (tires/engine) was an absolute no-go by policy. Shooting to disable a driver/shooter in a moving car was within policy under certain circumstances. On SWAT, we tested our ability to disable parked vehicles by shooting tires and engines. Tire deflation was slow, and we didn't pack the gear to reliably disable an engine.

[TSH]

I just want some clarification on shooting tires. Is it effective or not? Is there a best way to do it and if subjected to different variables when is it most likely to not succeed.
I thought this would be covered in training in certain fields and since we have a lot of LE there would be some knowledgable responses.

It is not effective.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just as an anecdote, from my other hobby. A coin store in Colorado was robbed years ago. The owner ran out and shot at the get away tires. He was arrested for whatever the charge is for shooting at get away tires. We had a stack of tires holding up a stand at a match. A guy shot one with a light load 45 ACP from a 625. Round bounced off the thread and hit a guy in the chest. I saw it coming back. Big bruise but thankfully that was all.