Shooting Tires

[secondstoryguy]

Do you have training in this subject?

Yep, first hand., with a variety of tires.

[Half Moon]

I dont see how that test is completely relevant as it doesnt have the weight of the car on the tire. It also has a lot of speculation. A LOT.

Im going to repeat Im looking for people who have TRAINING, PROTOCOLS TO FOLLOW AND POSSIBLY REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE NOT SPECULATION ON THIS SCENARIO.
Im assuming the most informed will be LE, Military or those trained in Personal Protection with ammo specifically used in those professions.

It was a data point. Whether a good one or not??? Real world, I've seen pistol, rifle, and shotgun calibers fail to penetrate an unmounted steel belted radial at a hundred yards. What that mean to your scenario, no idea. Bowing out.

[Caballoflaco]

If you’re shooting at the tires of an occupied vehicle, you better have a justifiable reason to accidentally kill anyone who is in the car or general vicinity of the car if they catch one of your misses. And if you have a justifiable reason to use deadly force against occupants of the car I don’t know why you would want to shoot the tires and not the person who is posing you or another the threat of serious bodily injury or death.


Getting your tactics from 1970’s TV shows is a terrible idea. I’m not an expert here, but in the hundreds of actual police chases I’ve watched on YouTube in the last 10 years not once has a police officer shot at the tires of a car. That should be a clue.

[secondstoryguy]

In Texas DPS troopers were authorized to shoot out tires up untill a few years ago...like out the window of a moving vehicle....maybe get with them They used shotguns for the most part IIRC.

[UNK]

Also, heavy duty tires may have strong enough construction that a pistol round hitting at an oblique angle won't even penetrate the sidewall. Thinking Load Range E on 2500/3500 light trucks, plus medium duty stuff and up if you're thinking about the rented box truck scenario.

I remember a police chase in SoCal back when they were televised live (amazing how they more or less stopped happening when the networks all agreed to stop broadcasting live). A box truck drove around for several miles with no tires on the metal rims on at least one corner. So stopping the tires doesn't necessarily stop the vehicle. It's a timer, and not a very good one. Stopping the driver will stop the vehicle sooner than a flat or even debeaded tire, but then there are other issues raised by a driverless vehicle. And that's about the edge of my lane on this. I'm a tire guy.

The situation that caused this question is a person was babysitting a child. The scene was a corner lot with a pretty decent distance from the corner of the garage to the sidewalk. The child was riding a bike and went onto the side walk. A pickup truck was coming down the street and slowed down close to the child. The person watching the childs first thought was abduction. She took off running towards the child and had to cover 30-40 yards. Thankfully the truck drove on and it was a non incident.
I dont know anything about shooting tires, what really happens to the tire, the ability to operate the vehicle or if there is a down range concern. Im guessing that one or two flat tires would be a big hinderance in driving and surely would make the vehicle easier to identify. Theres all king of ways to play the above scenario out but Im just interested in the tire part.

[UNK]

If you’re shooting at the tires of an occupied vehicle, you better have a justifiable reason to accidentally kill anyone who is in the car or general vicinity of the car if they catch one of your misses. And if you have a justifiable reason to use deadly force against occupants of the car I don’t know why you would want to shoot the tires and not the person who is posing you or another the threat of serious bodily injury or death.


Getting your tactics from 1970’s TV shows is a terrible idea. I’m not an expert here, but in the hundreds of actual police chases I’ve watched on YouTube in the last 10 years not once has a police officer shot at the tires of a car. That should be a clue.

I just want some clarification on shooting tires. Is it effective or not? Is there a best way to do it and if subjected to different variables when is it most likely to not succeed.
I thought this would be covered in training in certain fields and since we have a lot of LE there would be some knowledgable responses.
I think i covered in the OP an abduction, shooter being skilled enough to make the shot, legal concerns, down range concerns.
For example is there a pass through concern with for example 9mm. That would be through the sidewall or through the tread. Is there a degree of angle at which it is unlikely to succeed and may present a deflection or ricochet issue. Is there a certain speed at which the speed of the vehicle it becomes an issue.
Its a theoretical question which has only to do with shooting tires.

[UNK]

It was a data point. Whether a good one or not??? Real world, I've seen pistol, rifle, and shotgun calibers fail to penetrate an unmounted steel belted radial at a hundred yards. What that mean to your scenario, no idea. Bowing out.

Unmounted tires has nothing to do with this scenario.

[DDTSGM]

I was an EVOC Instructor and a firearms instructor for many years - over 30.

The first problem with your scenario is actually making the shot - regardless of with pistol or rifle. You will be shooting at fairly small 'bands' on the front or rear of the spinning rim.

Just for fun I measured my Dodge Ram's cross section with a ruler - visible tire sidewall about 6 inches, edge of rim to spoke about 3 inches.

That target is going to be moving 1.46666 (let's call it 1.5) feet per second per MPH of speed. So as the car accelerates away. from a dead stop. it will be going from 0 FPS to 30 FPS within a couple seconds. It's going to be problematic establishing and holding a proper lead under those conditions..

In training our recruits to engage moving targets with handgun and shotgun we ran the mover at steady speeds to introduce them to the concepts of what we called 'steady hold' which was establishing a lead and maintaining it; 'overtaking' which was another way to say pass through shooting; and 'ambush' which was simply picking a point along the targets path of travel and firing before the target reached your point of aim. Given a steady speed, advice on the lead to take, and a couple of practice runs most folks could put rounds on target. Bobbing and weaving or accelerating is a different matter.

As others have mentioned, cars can drive a long way on flats. I once followed a drunk who had hit a concrete bridge and pretty much wiped out his right front end for about three miles, the last one of which was on the rim of the truck with the rim angled about 45 degrees out. All kinds of sparks.

I'm fully on board with LE policies that proscribe shooting at moving vehicles or their occupants unless the vehicle poses a direct threat to life which cannot be avoided.

[Lon]

Shooting the tire anywhere with a pistol round will eventually cause it to deflate, but it takes a while. Bad guy will be able to drive away without any issue. I may have some old video comparing shooting the rubber vs. shooting the rim. Shooting the rim w a pistol is a waste of time. Done this many times in trainings to show the difference. It’s also common to have a student accidentally shoot a tire while shooting under the vehicle. Takes a while to notice the tire is going flat.

[DDTSGM]

It’s also common to have a student accidentally shoot a tire while shooting under the vehicle. Takes a while to notice the tire is going flat.

The very first time I got a wrecked car to use on the range the boss told me 'better take the tires off and put it on blocks.' Nah, I knew better. Learned my lesson. Well, actually learned to have spares that fit.