Push/Pull

[Cecil Burch]

I have yet to have an instructor mention push/pull in any carbine class.

And I’ve taken several.

That’s why I asked.

That is most likely due to the fact that probably the majority of people teaching carbine work have never done push/pull and have no idea it exists.

[DDTSGM]

I have yet to have an instructor mention push/pull in any carbine class.

And I’ve taken several.

That’s why I asked.

Maybe they are talking about the technique in different terms.

Go out and try shooting on the move focusing on pulling the rifle into your shoulder with both arms/hands.

Now do the same, establishing your master grip pull into the shoulder and essentially matching it with forward pressure off the support grip.

I'm sure the results will be better and I'm also sure that if you've practiced shooting on the move, you subconsciously have been doing it all along.

[vcdgrips]

Push/Pull with a carbine means how I properly insert a mag so I do not have a 1 shot carbine.

I confess I am outside my lane as I have not run a shotgun at speed in forever. When I did train with it meaningfully, IIRC- I was using what I thought was a "towel wringing" technique wherein I pulled back with my strong hand, pulled forward with my support hand and added some inward torque as if I was wringing water out of a shower towel.

While I was by no means king of the shotgun in my tactical tues training group- I certainly held my own. The shotguns in question were 500 Series Mossbergs. Initially, an 8 shot 590, ultimately a 5 shot 500.

I would absolutely defer to others in this realm who have more training/experience/bulk.

[LHS]

That is most likely due to the fact that probably the majority of people teaching carbine work have never done push/pull and have no idea it exists.

Most of the people teaching carbine work don't have much if any experience with the shotgun as anything other than a breaching tool or bird hunting gun. That's not a knock on those folks, just a recognition of the lack of use of the shotgun in most military circles (and even LE circles, these days). Plus the typical 5.56 carbine doesn't have much recoil in general and therefore people can generally get away with not doing it.

[HCM]

I have yet to have an instructor mention push/pull in any carbine class.

And I’ve taken several.

That’s why I asked.

I have.

The "push pull" you're referencing, pushing and pulling on the carbine, has been referenced in couple classes I've taken as a way to keep the carbine stable when shooting while moving. I first heard it in that context in a a Green Ops class. @Mr Pink

"Push pull" is more commonly used regarding reloading AR pattern carbines i.e. pushing the new mag in and then pulling on the mag to ensure the magazine is fully inserted and locked in place before releasing the bolt.

[HCM]

That is most likely due to the fact that probably the majority of people teaching carbine work have never done push/pull and have no idea it exists.

The 1980's HK/SAS MP5 on a sling thing is essentially "push pull."

Nevah bin done be fo.....

[titsonritz]

Sure it works, thing is the AR doesn't recoil enough to gain much benefit from the technique. One of the virtues of the AR, is the ability to shoot it without a solid shoulder hold.

[Paul Blackburn]

The H&K MP5 video describes the push/pull in the opposite direction of the Rob Haught method and says its primarily for stockless PDW's.


Even though its just an AR firing 4 rounds per second into a 3X5 card you still get muzzle rise so there's definitely some sort of technique because people do it.

[HCM]

The H&K MP5 video describes the push/pull in the opposite direction of the Rob Haught method and says its primarily for stockless PDW's.


Even though its just an AR firing 4 rounds per second into a 3X5 card you still get muzzle rise so there's definitely some sort of technique because people do it.

There are various takes on carbine technique. The most common is weight on the forward support side leg, rolling the firing shoulder forward, pulling the gun back into the shoulder. Some like the C clamp grip some prefer some type of hand stop some prefer the classic forward rifle grip but all are pulling a gun back into the shoulder / mass of the body.

[LHS]

The H&K MP5 video describes the push/pull in the opposite direction of the Rob Haught method and says its primarily for stockless PDW's.


Even though its just an AR firing 4 rounds per second into a 3X5 card you still get muzzle rise so there's definitely some sort of technique because people do it.

I've seen it taught with opposite pressure with MP5s, but that's generally due to how the MP5's handguard is arranged. Try pulling away from that and you lose your grip, so the technique became to pull inwards with the support hand, and push forward with the shoulder/firing hand. It accomplishes much the same thing when you're dealing with the mild recoil of a roller-locked 9mm subgun. With a straight handguard like that on a modern AR-based PCC, I'll use standard push-pull all day long if I'm trying to shoot fast up close.