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Thread: Push/Pull

  1. #21
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Pushing forward with the firing hand makes sense when you don't have a stock to work with and the recoil you're dealing with is relatively mild.

    Pulling a stock into your upper body makes sense when you have an actual stock to work with and real recoil to deal with.

    Pushing forward with your support hand makes sense when you are running a pump gun because hanging force rearward on the forend of a shotgun just prevents the action from unlocking.
    3/15/2016

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The 1980's HK/SAS MP5 on a sling thing is essentially "push pull."

    Nevah bin done be fo.....

    Possibly, but how many of the instructors teaching carbine today were in service in the 80's? The vast majority are late 90's through the GWOT years. None of whcih involved a lot of MP5 work.

    Just because it was done at some point in the past does not mean that there is a continuous line of information that has been transmitted to current people.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    Possibly, but how many of the instructors teaching carbine today were in service in the 80's? The vast majority are late 90's through the GWOT years. None of whcih involved a lot of MP5 work.

    Just because it was done at some point in the past does not mean that there is a continuous line of information that has been transmitted to current people.
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  4. #24
    F.A.R.T. Lab Tech RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I guess I'm confused why some instructors don't understand they are teaching push-pull...because it doesn't take a physicist to understand...

    A taut sling provides rearward tension (pull). To make the sling taught, forward motion (push) has to occur. Therefore - any technique - which relies on a taught sling/strap is a push-pull technique.

    Even the Demonstrated Concept recoil strap for a shockwave is a push-pull. The hand strap tensions up with the firing hand going forward (pushing the strap), BUT it's pulling at the butt to pull the gun so it goes down and back. Then the forward hand pushes the muzzle down. It's a push-pull technique.

    Ching-sling/Safari Sling method. Forearm wraps the sling and pulls it taught applying rearward pressure on the gun (Pull), forehand pushes the muzzle forward and down (push). In this case it is primarily a method for stabilizing the muzzle, but it also helps with recoil control.

    Anyways, I just find it generally kind of interesting that folks down associate a taught sling with a pull motion. Push-Pull isn't just hands and arms. Anything attached to the gun can aid in that.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    I have tried Rob's Push/Pull with my dangerous game rifle, a left-handed Ruger .375Ruger. It works quite nicely there. Have not been able to try it at speed yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Pushing forward with your support hand makes sense when you are running a pump gun because hanging force rearward on the forend of a shotgun just prevents the action from unlocking.
    Reasonable people can differ. Haven't had that issue. It does work very well with my semi-auto shotguns.

  6. #26
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Anyways, I just find it generally kind of interesting that folks down associate a taught sling with a pull motion. Push-Pull isn't just hands and arms. Anything attached to the gun can aid in that.
    One can even hook a piece of the long gun over a barricade and pull against that and get the same effect.

    In fact, in some precision marksmanship programs introducing isometric tension or pulling against a barricade is taught as a method of steadying the gun to break a little more accurate shot quickly.

    The concept itself is not new. Pulling back a bow is, essentially, push/pull. You push forward with the hand holding the bow while pulling backward with the hand on the string. It's surprising how many people lock the arm holding the bow and just pull against the string with one hand, leaving all kinds of strength on the table.

    Breaking it down as a formal concept and introducing people to it as a specific recoil mitigation technique tends to be fairly rare. Even on the MP5 while at one point HKI taught it, the knowledge seems to have dissipated after they stopped being an entity. (One of the challenges in the training biz is how perishable knowledge is. When we lose an instructor a library burns and somebody has to re-learn things the hard way)

    I teach using body position, body weight, and push/pull to mitigate recoil...because in various circumstances you may not be able to do all of those things. But you can likely get at least one of them working for you no matter what is going on or what position you find yourself in.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 09-16-2022 at 08:56 PM.
    3/15/2016

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