New 2011 red dot division

[Caballoflaco]

Since you have experience with these in your open gun: how do you protect your $200 mags from loss? I lost $40 Uplula during state match, I was nearly heartbroken. The distraction cost me at least 10 seconds. I can't imagine losing $200 mag. Even excessive wear is tough to take.

The secret I hear, is to own and carry around so many that you don’t notice it when one or two go missing. Plus you always have back up mags for when they hit the ground and you can’t clean them or if they just stop working and your mag tuner dude doesn’t have a tent set up at the shoot.

[Jim Watson]

Because it's 2022 and 9mm isn't some popgun and the .45 acp isn't the Sword of Damocles.

Just allow 9mm P Major in all Divisions.
If I overload my 9mm Open gun, why shouldn't you overload your Limited, CO, or Production gun?

[jh9]

Just allow 9mm P Major in all Divisions.
If I overload my 9mm Open gun, why shouldn't you overload your Limited, CO, or Production gun?

That could be interesting...

I mean, I'm fine with 9mm = minor in Limited or even elsewhere. The big problem I see with Limited today is that those weighted down, big honkin heavy .40s basically get all the benefits of major scoring with all the benefits we used to associate with minor such as high capacity and lighter recoil. They get to have their cake and eat it too.

Choosing major or minor should come with both pros and cons, not be a winner-take-all affair. There should be a strategic element to picking one or the other.

[JCN]

That could be interesting...

I mean, I'm fine with 9mm = minor in Limited or even elsewhere. The big problem I see with Limited today is that those weighted down, big honkin heavy .40s basically get all the benefits of major scoring with all the benefits we used to associate with minor such as high capacity and lighter recoil. They get to have their cake and eat it too.

Choosing major or minor should come with both pros and cons, not be a winner-take-all affair. There should be a strategic element to picking one or the other.

Some interesting facts:

40SW 205gr Syntech is rated at 400 ft lbs.

Exactly the same as 9mm HST+P.


Syntech 150 in 9mm basically makes energy like 380 ACP.

[JCS]

Maybe people are misreading the boards comments about working with manufacturers on division. Maybe it’s not gun but ammo manufacturers. Current 9mm major ammo exceeds SAMI specs and that’s why big companies don’t make it. Lower major pf to something more like 9mm +p would get ammo manufacturers in the game. Uspsa shooters spend much more on ammo than guns.

[YVK]

I doubt it. Ammo makers sell everything they produce and hardcore USPSA crowd mostly reloads their ammo.
Frankly, I am not sure who in industry would want it badly enough to lobby. Has to be 9 mm 2011 makers because if they allowed major, milling services for existing Limited slides or just new slides is all that they'll be selling. Staccato makes 15K guns a year, I wonder how much of them they are selling and how saturated that niche is. Obviously SA has big production capacity and relatively small presence in USPSA, maybe they are pushing for this newly released Pro-partskit.

[JCN]

I doubt it. Ammo makers sell everything they produce and hardcore USPSA crowd mostly reloads their ammo.
Frankly, I am not sure who in industry would want it badly enough to lobby. Has to be 9 mm 2011 makers because if they allowed major, milling services for existing Limited slides or just new slides is all that they'll be selling. Staccato makes 15K guns a year, I wonder how much of them they are selling and how saturated that niche is. Obviously SA has big production capacity and relatively small presence in USPSA, maybe they are pushing for this newly released Pro-partskit.

The Prodigy mags almost exactly meet 170 and 140mm specs. With Rob Leatham consulting that wasn’t a coincidence….

[Hambo]

Plus you always have back up mags for when they hit the ground and you can’t clean them or if they just stop working and your mag tuner dude doesn’t have a tent set up at the shoot.

The real answer is to bend enough feed lips that you can become your own mag tuner dude. The learning curve can be costly, but it's better than sending someone else's kids to college.

[Gio]

I think they should just blow up the divisions and start from scratch at this point instead of trying to band-aid fix and accommodate new guns:

Optics Major - Basically Open as it is, 170mm mags
Optics Minor - Basically CO as it is but also allow SAO limited style guns, 140mm mags
Irons Major - Basically limited as it is now, 140mm mags
Irons Minor - Limited Minor, 140mm mags
Low Cap - 10 round minor/8 round major, any gun currently allowed in limited goes - This is basically combining production, L10, and single stack

PCC
Rev

[bofe954]

I think they should just blow up the divisions and start from scratch at this point instead of trying to band-aid fix and accommodate new guns:

Optics Major - Basically Open as it is, 170mm mags
Optics Minor - Basically CO as it is but also allow SAO limited style guns, 140mm mags
Irons Major - Basically limited as it is now, 140mm mags
Irons Minor - Limited Minor, 140mm mags
Low Cap - 10 round minor/8 round major, any gun currently allowed in limited goes - This is basically combining production, L10, and single stack

PCC
Rev

I could live with that. My only question would be whether a 10 round minor gun could compete with an 8 round major gun, or whether SS major would end up wrecking any hope of shooting a 9mm production type gun. I guess maybe those guns would really just end up in Irons Minor with big mags?