CO dominates the sport by a wide margin in terms of % of shooters.
I’d love to see a limited optics type division with sa allowed and magwells and slide ride dots and minor only. .40 is obsolete outside of competition so it gives the 2011 people a place to shoot still.
Production is dead. The future of the sport is optics. I think a production 15 with ipsc style rules and limited optics would take some from CO and limited and give everyone a division to play in.
I think if the primer famine continues 9mm minor divisions are all that will really be viable.Originally Posted by JCS
I need to shoot a match, but I feel like throw 2011’s in CO if they fit the criteria as far as magazine size, etc.
I don’t think fragmenting or adding another division is necessary.
Let’s be honest - the CZ Shadow 2 is a heavy gun, with lots of rail, nice trigger, etc. but I’d largely built for performance, right?
That’s allowed. Add a Weapon light (which some use purely as a muzzle weight and hey I might join them) is now legal?
Magazines and holsters can now go anywhere on the carrier. We can shoot from AIWB.
Let’s 2011’s in - who cares we might grow the sport?
I think honestly production and revolver classes will naturally ebb, but not entirely go away. I figure grow the sport and I don’t see a down side to single stack, revolver, or production divisions.
The reality is you showed up to a competition - if you get smashed because of your equipment you have the decision then to either try to get better with what you have or chase the latest and greatest. I figure the 2A has more coming at it than ever and if cheap 2011’s grow the sport then great.
Or we can get continually be marginalized. IDPA allows 2011’s.
God Bless,
Brandon
If this was going to happen and it didn't affect neighboring divisions, I don't care. I might even get one. I am not sure how it can be done that way except simply making it "2011 minor pf slide mounted optic division". If they merged it with the CO, it would OK SAO in that division and that may have various downstream effects. If they allowed major pf, it would affect both limited and open divisions.
Beyond that, the rumors are that this is being pushed by lobbying from 2011 makers. I don't think that decisions should be influenced by what industry wants to sell.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
I think 2011s in CO was inevitable. I've compiled this helpful timeline to illustrate:
2014: Carry Optics introduced as a provisional division; immediately derided as Welfare Open
2015: Glock introduces the MOS slides, Leopold introduces the Deltapoint Pro; This begins a new age of broken screws and optics.
2016: HK teases a similar setup for the VP9. Soon (tm).
2017: USPSA BOD decides Welfare Open sounds pretty good, removes 10 round limit; The Poors zerg rush CO division en masse with iron sighted Glocks and 15 round magazines. The BOD responds by requiring slide mounted optics, credit checks.
2018: Two years later, HK is still pondering how to drill a hole in the VP9 slide. Soon (tm).
2019: Leupold introduces the SRO, shooters at large discover rocksett; CO guns begin a new age of (mostly) remaining attached to slides and functional
2020: HK releases its modular optics system; using its famed German Engineering they decided to use larger screws. The entire industry looks on, stunned. HK becomes the champion of mounting systems that doesn't break screws under recoil, a fact that goes unnoticed by most shooters since nobody has been shooting a 20oz gun in CO for a few years now.
2022: In yet another skirmish between The Poors of Welfare Open and CZ Shadow 2 shooters, the BOD considers allowing Open Minor 2011s to shoot in CO (with an 800+ credit score)
2023: PCC is allowed in CO.
In a “oh duh” moment, I realize I have TSOs and Czechmate mags…
I’d imagine any 2011 optics classes would also allow TSOs.
I think it's been like that for awhile. I also think that when manufacturers push a platform and a lot of people buy it, USPSA wants to make a place for people to shoot it.
Disagree. Sponsors subsidizing the sport should get a voice in the direction of the sport.
And people who want to shoot in stagnant divisions always have Revo and Single Stack to hang out in.
Popular divisions will always have social media, popular opinion and “cool factor” draw.
You can’t separate that out from the sport.
The Infinity makers might just find themselves in a quandary if the most popular guns in the new division are Shadow 2 SAO or Shadows running cocked and locked, not to mention Springfield and CZ TSOs.
I’m more and more convinced that they’ll have to do a “Super CO” division between Open and CO and that’s likely where I’ll end up.
Time to dust off the TSOs…
I just hope they allow 170mm mags…
I don't think that there are large numbers of dedicated 9 mm 2011 owners outside USPSA who are saying "if only USPSA allowed our guns, we would start participating". I actually don't think that there are large numbers of 9 mm 2011 owners in general. My impression is that there are about 7k active participants in the organization and this is largely a zero-sum market. That's one reason why I said upthread that I don't see how this could be done without impacting existing divisions. In theory it may impact the interests of other gun makers but the price difference will likely play a role here.
Question is to what extent.
To the point of sponsors having a voice, I wonder what SIG and Glock will think of SAO guns being allowed in the same divisions with strikers.
Last edited by YVK; 09-14-2022 at 08:45 AM.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
As the person at the manufacture coordinating USPSA sponsorship, I disagree the manufacture should not have a voice in how the sport changes. We all have the opportunity to build guns for the divisions as they are. I personally think that if you add SA to CO you are going to take people from open and limited with little to no additional shooters to the sport. If you make it a new division you will take people from CO, Open and Limited watering down those divisions. I think making large changes to the most popular division is a bad idea in general, it didnt work out well for production.
FN America DSM
Cajun Gun Works and Shooters World Powder shooting team member
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