Grip angle, grip strength, shooting injuries and sight indexing

[JHC]

I would call that a barefoot grip technique.

I've toughened the feet up a lot since WFH these past two years. Important since training for "Naked and Afraid".

I can see how the 2011 wide body would be similar to the Glock grip. On single stack 1911 my palm is completely covering the back strap area.

[YVK]

I would call that a barefoot grip technique.

That's how it will be known.

I don't think it mitigates the influence of a grip angle but of a backstrap hump. Which leads to a whole another discussion if it is the angle, the hump, or both together that influence wrists with Glocks.

An independent question to which we won't have an answer is if getting your palm off the backstrap works well for ya, why do you prefer the E2 grip over a regular...

[GJM]

An independent question to which we won't have an answer is if getting your palm off the backstrap works well for ya, why do you prefer the E2 grip over a regular...

'cause everyone wants to shoot a CZ, and if you are stuck with a dumb 2011, this gets you closest to that Colt, I mean Czech, feel.

[Joe in PNG]

The thing I'm not liking about my G19 is that the left corner of the grip really digs into the basal joint of my thumb under recoil. Sadly, I can't take a photo of the problem, as it's currently halfway around the world.
It's not really a problem with my Beretta 92, and not as much with my HiPower. I might need to shop for something with a more rounded grip, or get a reduction.

[YVK]

'cause everyone wants to shoot a CZ, and if you are stuck with a dumb 2011, this gets you closest to that Colt, I mean Czech, feel.

You're paying Cameron a GDP of Malawi to work on your guns. You'd think he'd get you not just a Czech feel but whatever particular region you fancy, Moravia or whatever, for that money.

[JCN]

Spoke to GJM and got more details of what Kim is explaining then sent him these two pics of how I grip a Glock since forever day 1 and he indicated this is more of less what Kim is promoting.

So I guess I was too critical in my first post.

Is that your normal strong thumb position? If not, disregard.

Without supporting the frame up high with the proximal thumb joint it’ll be hard to prevent shots from leaking left.

[JCN]

I can see how the 2011 wide body would be similar to the Glock grip. On single stack 1911 my palm is completely covering the back strap area.

I don't think it mitigates the influence of a grip angle but of a backstrap hump. Which leads to a whole another discussion if it is the angle, the hump, or both together that influence wrists with Glocks.

It’s mainly the hump (as someone who has reduced it).

@JHC there’s a whole interplay which takes backstrap contour, front strap contour and angle, trigger reach and wall as well as grip circumference to build the index and grip.

Which is why a G43 will take a different grip than a G20. Even though same “angle” a Glock is not a Glock is not a Glock.

For competition guns, it’s so specific that I’ll sometimes use different thickness grips on each side to preserve proper orientation of my hand rotation.

But that doesn’t dictate my index.

The index is based on how much meat there is on the bottom 1/3 backstrap that meets my right base of thumb.

Same grip, more bump, higher muzzle.

[YVK]

It’s mainly the hump (as someone who has reduced it.

Reduction isn't my preferred solution. My two 19s have humps relocated upwards to mimic CZ backstrap. They point a lot closer to normal than Bowie's full hump removal that I no longer own.

[JCN]

Reduction isn't my preferred solution. My two 19s have humps relocated upwards to mimic CZ backstrap. They point a lot closer to normal than Bowie's full hump removal that I no longer own.

I think that looks sweet, man. I dig it.

I initially did the Gripfix chop but I didn’t like the change in the rear contour.

My current reduction on a 19x frame is pretty subtle.



At full speed the index is identical to my Shadow. It’s lovely. It’s the first Glock I’ve loved in a long time.

[Clusterfrack]

We've revisited a lot of these issues over the years. For example:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-trigger-speed

Here are a few thoughts and some old posts:

Overgripping the gun has caused numerous injuries that I am personally aware of, including my own. I owe Hwansik a lot because it was his videos that helped me move beyond that. As far as index goes, I can go back and forth between Glocks and new model CZs (S2, P-07) without changing my vertical index. EDIT: See this image for how similar they are. My strong hand is mostly on top of the hump, because my hands are smedium sized. Sigs, 1911s, and especially Berettas do NOT index the same in my hands.

I find lateral index errors to be much more problematic than vertical index problems, and when I'm switching from a CZ to Glock--especially a large frame Glock I pay special attention to how my support side thumb 'indexes' the side of the frame. My horizontal alignment is usually good as long as that thumb is touching and extended. Even if my strong hand grip is really jacked, I can usually crush the horizontal error out with the support hand.

I do not modify the frames or grips any of my polymer guns other than to apply grip tape. If a Glock didn't work for me, I'd use something else. The idea of being able to pick up any Glock anywhere and shoot it is attractive to me.

Some guns have grips that defy a repeatable index for me, and the common theme is a very round grip that's supposed to be ergonomic. When the grip is so ambiguous that I can't tell immediately if I'm gripping it wrong, that's a problem. OG p320 grip modules, M&P, and one of my least favorite guns, the Shield, all demand special attention when I shoot them. I like squarish slab-sided grips.

I posted this somewhere before, but here it is again:

There are a lot of people who don't really know why what they do works, and some of these people are very accomplished shooters. After spending serious time down Hwansik Kim's rabbit hole, I think there is:

1) Confusion between gripping hard and locking the wrist. It is not obvious that these can be done independently unless you work on it.

2) Confusion between gripping the gun hard and returning the gun after recoil. These are not the same thing, and aren't directly related unless the gun is slipping inside the grip, or the grip is coming apart.

3) Confusion between how everyone needs to grip guns, and how a particular gun fits one person's hand.

All the discussion about various grip techniques shows how robust the standard thumbs-forward grip is. There are a lot of ways to implement it.

I drank the "grip the fuck out of it" koolaid for years, and it's only been in the last three years that I found I didn't need to do that, even with light plastic guns. All it takes is a quick search on Youtube to watch teenage girl grandmasters shoot and you can see that Vogel or Seeklander level of hand strength is simply not necessary for even very high levels of shooting.

If the gun doesn't move inside your hands, and your grip doesn't come apart during recoil, that's enough grip.

I grip hard with my support hand, and medium with my firing hand. No counter rotation, extreme wrist angles, or that kind of thing. Just a comfortable grip with very stiff wrists.

The only guns I have to really crush are mouseguns like a LCP or snubby.