More Felons Killed by Citizens than by Police- FBI

[rdtompki]

We've been in Idaho 4 years and in that entire time I've seen 2-3 instances of open carry and zero instances of concealed carry; concealed means concealed but I'm a pretty observant old dude. OTOH, I'm a retired old dude and my interaction with the general population is low bandwidth: the range (everybody is carrying something - doesn't count), Jackson's for gas, coffee shops, Home Depot, other miscellaneous. You would think in all this time I would have detected one concealed handgun. Might be different in the big city downtowns: Boise, Eagle (too many Californians), Nampa, Caldwell. Anecdotally, the percentage in Idaho appears low.

[WobblyPossum]

We've been in Idaho 4 years and in that entire time I've seen 2-3 instances of open carry and zero instances of concealed carry; concealed means concealed but I'm a pretty observant old dude. OTOH, I'm a retired old dude and my interaction with the general population is low bandwidth: the range (everybody is carrying something - doesn't count), Jackson's for gas, coffee shops, Home Depot, other miscellaneous. You would think in all this time I would have detected one concealed handgun. Might be different in the big city downtowns: Boise, Eagle (too many Californians), Nampa, Caldwell. Anecdotally, the percentage in Idaho appears low.

From my anecdotal experiences, I also believe most people who have a CCW don’t carry regularly. They seem to want the license for other reasons such as keeping a gun in their car while they drive around or because it might streamline the purchasing of new firearms in their state by letting them skip a new background check.

[CWM11B]

I’d bet on it being police hesitant to act nowadays and also “smile and wave” policing due to crappy civic leadership.

This pretty much nails it. At least what from what im seeing in my area.

[Clay]

After several years of working in a gun range here in very pro gun Arkansas, I can say from my own experience that less than 2% of CHL holders actually carry a gun on their person around here, with most of them being women with a gat thrown in a purse. Lots of guns in cars and and closets, tho. Some of them are even loaded.

Every person in my office almost has a CHL, but I am the only one that carries a gun. Sure is a lot of gun talk in the office all the time, tho.

It's rare to even see an off-duty police officer armed when they come in the gun range.

My mantra for years has been "you can't go fetch it' and "you'll be in a fight with what you have on your person", but alas I have plowed the sea.

[blues]

^^^^^

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink think.

[P30]

What makes up the difference between the under 300 number killed by LEOs and the roughly 1,000 shot and killed by police yearly?

Important question. Searched but found only this Guardian article about what could make up the difference:

theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/28/hunted-one-in-three-people-killed-by-us-police-were-fleeing-data-reveals:

‘Hunted’: one in three people killed by US police were fleeing, data reveals

In many cases, the encounters started as traffic stops or there were no allegations of violence or serious crimes

Don't know exactly what to think about it, don't live in the US. In Germany, 10 people are shot by police per year (on average). So in Germany, 0.1 person in a million is shot by police per year. In the US, 3.0 persons in a million are shot by police per year.

PS:
Found a bit more about the situation in the US (in Wikipedia):

According to the database, 6,600 have been killed since 2015, including 6,303 men and 294 women. Among those killed, 3,878 were armed with a gun, 1,119 were armed with a knife, 218 were armed with a vehicle, 244 had a toy weapon, and 421 were unarmed.

So the toy weapons lead to 244/6600 = 3.7% of the killings.

[LittleLebowski]

We've been in Idaho 4 years and in that entire time I've seen 2-3 instances of open carry and zero instances of concealed carry; concealed means concealed but I'm a pretty observant old dude. OTOH, I'm a retired old dude and my interaction with the general population is low bandwidth: the range (everybody is carrying something - doesn't count), Jackson's for gas, coffee shops, Home Depot, other miscellaneous. You would think in all this time I would have detected one concealed handgun. Might be different in the big city downtowns: Boise, Eagle (too many Californians), Nampa, Caldwell. Anecdotally, the percentage in Idaho appears low.

The places with ample freedom like Idaho and Wyoming really don't necessitate carrying unlike the Democrat-ran cities and states.

[HCM]

Usually a felon they is “ interacting “ with citizens first, leo second.

So kinda makes sense.

I agree it makes sense. If I recall correctly this ratio is nothing new.

This ^^^ is the primary factor followed by the numbers of citizens vs LE and nature of the interactions and participants themselves.

Felons are confronting citizens (triggering the encounters) and thus most likely to trigger use of force in response.

LE are confronting felons but with the intent to arrest in most cases. Conversely, only a portion of felons are confronting LE..

While “de-policing” and hesitation among LE are factors, they are tertiary.

[willie]

I was born in 1948 in Mississippi and grew up there. Neither of our town marshals during my years at home carried a weapon. My uncle, serving as sheriff from 1952-56, sold his revolver after he left office. I could give other similar examples.

[feudist]

I agree it makes sense. If I recall correctly this ratio is nothing new.

This ^^^ is the primary factor followed by the numbers of citizens vs LE and nature of the interactions and participants themselves.

Felons are confronting citizens (triggering the encounters) and thus most likely to trigger use of force in response.

LE are confronting felons but with the intent to arrest in most cases. Conversely, only a portion of felons are confronting LE..

While “de-policing” and hesitation among LE are factors, they are tertiary.

This.
The felon is making a convincing threat display to the citizen to force submission. It's at close range in order to rob, rape or assault. Gets him smoked. Statistically it's just gonna happen a lot more than OIS.
Generally getting shot by cops takes a real effort by a deeply stupid person.
Just doing your felonious job will do it against the right citizen. And the number of "drive away or deter" incidents is in my anecdotal experience orders of magnitude more frequent.